Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

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Sslee

Is 3iii saying those buying capA must be mad and silly gambler?

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Games people play. These are: positive sum games, negative sum games and zero sum games. Know how to play each of these games.

Important to choose the games you wish to play.

Know the probability of success and probability of failure of the game you wish to play. In investing, this is the upside:downside ratio. Even more importantly, is to understand the consequence of the various outcomes from the game.

In Russian roulette, the gun has 1 bullet and the probability of being killed by the bullet is 1:6. Given the consequence of the outcome, one will choose not to play even though the probability may be in your "favour". 😀

Play the game with the highest probability of success (upside:downside of > 3:1) and with a high probability of big rewards (e.g. compounding at >15% per year over 5 years, that is doubling every 5 years).

Stay inactive, observe and learn most of the time. Act decisively and courageously when opportunity presents.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

In some listed company, the insiders make more money from the fluctuations of the share prices than from the business profits and dividends.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas. What will be Thong and PAC holding % of Insas then?

Posted by TheContrarian > Apr 20, 2024 8:26 PM | Report Abuse
Thong and PAC have 218 million shares and 112 million warrants. Do your own calculation. It's simple Maths

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

No worries, I will make jayatiasa and insas my top 2 in my portfolio.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

By now you should know why Thong refuse to give fair and reasonable dividend and distribute retained profit as special dividend.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > 19 minutes ago | Report Abuse

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas. What will be Thong and PAC holding % of Insas then?


Approximately 55.2% of the enlarged share capital.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

I think this is Thong's last chance to increase his shareholding via the exercising the warrants route. It's going to be difficult to justice another round of RPS with free warrants again because Insas is hoarding so much cash and M&A Equity Holdings has already been listed.

Posted by speakup > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Sifu Leno probably sold 1.30
U cannot sell higher than a Sifu

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

speakup, don't make us all laugh at you. Hahahahahahaha 🤣

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

KUALA LUMPUR (July 9): Insas Bhd is planning to raise up to RM132.6 million from a renounceable rights issue of redeemable preference shares (rights RPS) with free detachable warrants to repay its bridging loans.

In a filing with Bursa Malaysia, the group said the rights issue involves up to 132.6 million new redeemable preference shares at an issue price of RM1 per rights RPS, together with 331.51 million new free detachable warrants on a basis of two rights RPS and five warrants for every 10 shares.

The tenure of the rights RPS is five years and it has a dividend rate of 3.8% per annum based on the issue price of the rights RPS.

When Insas issued the RPS it was done with so much warrants (5 : 2 ratio) attached. Obviously Thong benefited the most from this.

Posted by speakup > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Must shoe polish Sifu mah

Posted by xiaoeh > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Mr Leno will sell at only RM6 KAMBING....
unless under certain unforeseen circumstances that Mr Leno needed cash in urgency...
what do u think Speakup...

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Insas-WC will expire in 22 months. How will Insas shares be played out until then? What is Thong's game plan?

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas.

Assuming that this takes place, there will be instant dilution of the NTA of Insas. And the losers will be the minority shareholders.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

FISCAL YEAR ENDING 2023
PRICE 1.00

MARKET CAP (MILLION) 663.02

ROE 4.91%
ROA 4.05%
P/B 0.27
P/E 5.40
EARNINGS YIELD 18.51%
DIVIDEND YIELD 2.50%


Some investors are attracted to this stock because it is so undervalued. Yes, it is undervalued and they are right.

VALUE TRAPS
How do you decide whether it is a value trap or not?

Value traps are statistically very cheap and very alluring.

First question to ask: “Why is God so kind on you that you are the only one who has this tremendous insight that this stock is cheap and all the other people who are very active, smart and intelligent in the market are ignoring this company?”

Is there an embedded growth optionality in the company? Can the company have a growth phase? Can the company come out with some new product offering which can introduce growth?

This is a dynamic exercise. You will need to revisit the hypothesis every now and again, at intervals.

Two characteristics of value traps are:

(1) They typically don’t tend to grow more than the nominal GDP
(2) They cannot reinvest their cash flow.

So the question you should ask is what is the catalyst which will change this and allow them to reinvest the capital which they are throwing off? In its absence, you have a classic example where the company had great cash flows and no catalyst.

Your sole focus of whether to participate in a seemingly value trap could be you calling out the catalyst that will catapult it out of this situation.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

P/B 0.27

So, when full value is realised, the investor gained 4 folds. When will this be realised? How much will be the gain (also uncertain)? These are among the limitations of deep value investing. OTOH, these bargains, by nature of their business, are less likely to grow into multi-baggers.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

I believe many deep value investors in Insas in i3 bought when they were active participants in INVESTLAH FORUM. How many years have passed by?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If they had identified Padini then, they would have a multi-bagger (5x to 6x) and all its dividends.
There is always an opportunity cost to every decision.
No right or wrong. Just trying to understand how we make decisions guided by our internal schema.
Read Think fast and think slow by Kahneman, an excellent book on understanding the process of thinking.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Is 3iii implied Tong of theedgemalaysia who started this round of Insas spike up is the only one who has this tremendous insight that this stock is cheap and all the other people who are very active, smart and intelligent (3iii included) in the market are ignoring this company because of their ignorance or ego or prejudice or they are not smart enough?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

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Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Is 3iii implied Tong of theedgemalaysia who started this round of Insas spike up is the only one who has this tremendous insight that this stock is cheap and all the other people who are very active, smart and intelligent (3iii included) in the market are ignoring this company because of their ignorance or ego or prejudice or they are not smart enough?
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SSLee
Your interpretation is absolutely off the mark.
It is a general remark. Ask the right questions. The first question to ask when you find an extremely undervalued stock is obvious. Why is it so undervalued?

Is Parkson undervalued? I think its P/B is even lower. But then, many can give a lot of reasons why it should be so.

It is a check list to guide one on deciding whether this is a value trap or not a value trap. A very general, generic statement.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Know what is insas NAPS growth rate?

The problem with insas is due to controlling shareholder Thong and PAC would like to keep insas price low so that they can time their move to increase their holding from 32.96% to above 50% at the lowest cost to them.

As minority shareholders I can't do anything except buy low and sell high.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If only I have a billion I will make a hostile takeover of Insas and make another billion.

Posted by speakup > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

is mphbcap also another value trap ?

Posted by CharlesT > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

In short, another Holland buy call of Sifu

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Haha as long as his holland call did not kill you then you still make a huge gain from his chun chun call.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Insas rally was a result of sharks switching out of Dr Yu's companies into Insas. This excited Tong and also Chong who wrote lengthy articles to justify the spike comparing wonderful deep, deep undervalued Insas to Dr Yu's speculative overvalued companies.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

The articles gave the impression that Insas rally is the start of a fruitful journey that would take the share to drizzling heights, and that a person would be a fool to miss this golden opportunity.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

I don't expect people here to understand what I am saying. Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett, George Soros and the like-minded wouldn't understand anyway. That's how some people can make a four fold gain on Insas while others, well others are still waiting for Insas to move from RM1 to RM5 for their four fold gain.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

One of them is Leno still waiting for RM 6 or 60 kambing. If Leno is not careful come Feb 2026 his WC can be a worthless toilet paper.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Insas has all the superb financial numbers (well, except dividend yield) and yet, yet it drifts down continuously for weeks, with no end in sight. I already gave a likely reason. But people here mostly don't understand what I am saying. They think they are buying a dollar for a quarter.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

I only started investing in Insas eight years ago and it has been such a wonderful investment. Thrice I completely sold off Insas because one of my investment rule is never to fall in love with any of my investment. I can easily let go of what I love at the right time for the right price. This brings us to the question of right timing. The best time to sell has always been when everyone else gets so excited.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Insas attracted many retail investors hence many retail investors and small sharks buy low and start selling to new retail investors when price hit 1.20 and above

Once insas price start to retreat many retail investors just cut lose and put their money in other hot stocks.

Insas need a deep pocket big shark to make a raid and take over Insas to unlock its value or else Insas will remain a value trap.
Controlling shareholders (Thong and his PAC) like to lock value inside insas untill they make their move to increase their holding from 32.96% to above 50% at lowest cost to them.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Sharks objective is not to take over. It's pump and dump. Sometimes they pump to drizzling heights, sometimes they just pump up 30%.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Always buy before the sharks pump, and sell before they dump.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Thong merely watches from the sidelines, he has his own plan, the ultimate end game.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If not for the sharks Insas would be hovering around 80 to 90 sen. I wouldn't be able to make a four fold gain. Sharks have a purpose. Swim with the sharks but don't get eaten.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Yes the sharks are q buy at lower and lower price. Once the sharks collected enough they will start to pump again.

Posted by BLee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

“3iii> Value investing is about buying a stock at a sufficient discount to intrinsic value.”

Totally agreed; and there are many other factors to consider such as EPS, ROI, business risk, etc.

How I see below data:
52 Weeks Range > 0.805 - 1.35
At RM1, the down side is very limited.

52 Weeks Price Volatility (%) > 35.78%
Quite active, downtrend, but cyclically can reach the highest again during the next RPS if it happens.

T4Q P/E | EY > 6.79 | 14.72%
Comparatively among the best with others listed stocks.

DY | Payout % > 2.39% | 16.24%
Slightly below FD return, good CAGR over 10 years as shown in one of my articles. Cannot compare with MFCB, my other calc comparison.

T4Q NAPS | P/NAPS > 3.41 | 0.29
These are the only data perceived as ‘value trap’ at present price.

T4Q NP Margin | ROE > 53.42% | 4.31%
Good NP Margin, but ROE is not attractive; still better than FD rate.

Hi @TheContrarian, what do you mean “They think they are buying a dollar for a quarter.”? Better saying “a Ringgit for 3 Ringgit and 41sen”!!

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

As Israel-Iran tension eases, tomorrow ought to be bargain hunting day. Would that include Insas? How high would Insas go? Or would the floor break and we see trades done below RM1? Tomorrow will be an interesting day.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Buying a dollar for a quarter is American lingo. The people here are followers of Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett, George Soros, Joe Biden, Obama Barrack, Donald Trump etc.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

A couple of weeks ago when Insas was 1.10, if one were to sell them at 1.10 and last Friday bought back at 1.00 there would be around 10% gain, way better than FD interest rate.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

On the other hand if one were to have bought Insas at 1.10 and cut loss at 1.00 last Friday then he would have lost around 10%.

Posted by TheContrarian > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If speakup having sold at 1.20 and buys back at 1.00 he makes around 20% gain. Speakup buy back or not?

Posted by CharlesT > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Though Sifu helped me to make good money from Glove during 2020 n I am very grateful with him for that

Still, a Holland buy call is a Holland buy call... there is no conflict of it

Posted by CharlesT > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If Sifu is big heart enough he should see and appreciate my constructive bitter advice to him.....

Unless he isn't lah

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

For once Sifu' Holland buy call help those trapped in insas to exit at a good price.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

If yuu depend on TA trend breakout to time your buy in for sure you will also meet with some false breakout.

Hence you can blame Tong theedgemalaysia for the false breakout.

Posted by Sslee > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

The best breakout is when certain micro or macro conditions change that result in sustain sudden earning increase.

So must be patience to wait for wawasan 2026-2027

Posted by WellnessAntiCancer > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

of course I want to see Insas to go up with NTA value at RM2.56 at BOOK Value but if it marked to market that is easily above RM4.28 per share.

Personally, however, I prefer to see Insas comes down so that I can chance to buy more.

I know it will go up with Inflation, AI, America-China Semiconductor war, record FDI to Malaysia.

I don’t get euphoric if it goes up and neither do I get depressed if it comes down.

Buy and Hold Wonderful Businesses and attractive prices.

Let’s hope Insas breaks RM1.00 or better at 90 sen. Sell your IPHONE and use the fund to buy a RM550 Infinix smartphone and the balance to Insas.

Disclosure: I own both Insas and Insas WC and continues to accumulate at attractive prices

Posted by WellnessAntiCancer > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

WHO IS SELLING?

Likelihood are syndicates who are selling to push down prices and force weak (Note 1) hands to let go where they can accumulate at bottom and then pump up the price to dump later at higher prices.

Note 1: WEAK hands include
[1] emotionally investors who thinks the end of world coming
[2] margin calls
[3] paronoid investors who thinks the price will fall to zero.