Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 10:34 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Nov 20, 2013 10:16 AM | Report Abuse

@member41, note the sales keep dropping and not isolated to this qtr.

@cosway, for that, u can use net-net working capital to ignore this in order to come out a "beautified biz value". my goodness...

u r one good guy, but their $ their choice. anyone who is interested, try download latest qtr report goto page 8 as a start. this is certainly not nnwc meant for.

btw, congratulate those who earned big real $ out of this ;)


If I were you who knows nuts about any finance and investment, I would keep my big mouth shut instead of trying to ridicule others.

"this is certainly not nnwc meant for."? Tell us in precise explanation why do you understand about Graham net net valuation. I bet you know nothing, absolutely nothing. Kosong!

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 10:40 | Report Abuse

eh? lobang picah angry already? there was once an auntie attack 360deg on counter selling asset to boost earning. not sure why pmcorp is spared.

siapa curi-tipu siapa rasa pedas, forumers will read the above and justify themselves, not attacking other who point out the lobang.

Posted by messi2u > 2013-11-20 10:57 | Report Abuse

well said , kcchongnz

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-20 11:05 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, I checked again yr earlier cal. U did not add any % of PPE N iNVETMT Prop (0%) to arrive at yr N/N Working Cap/share of 0.294. Yr NOS of 773,357M includes the Treasury shares of 64,959,800 shares which not in circulation.

To cal BV, if I were to just take the Equity/NOS, I might inflate the BV from what's it's really worth (Intangibles, like Goodwill n Trademarks might not fetch its NBV in the event of a break-up). So, better to exclude Intangibles in BV cal.

I agree with, though, that the PPE might not be worth The NBV shown. Better to give, say, 70% value to its NBV.

Thanks for the discussion.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 11:11 | Report Abuse

What lobang? Tell us specifically what lobang you are talking about. If you have balls at all, let us go to the below link purposely set up for our discussion about finance and investment.

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900218979.jsp?ftp=1

Don't distract others from discussing about investing with your good-for-nothing ranting. There is no substance in your rants.

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 11:18 | Report Abuse

base on yr postings in this thread, u r clearly BIAS and DISHONEST.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 11:23 | Report Abuse

You see you are attacking a person; "BIAS, DISHONEST"? Why do you attack me as dishonest?

Anybody finds me bias, in what way? Dishonest, in what way?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2013-11-20 11:25 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Nov 20, 2013 11:18 AM | Report Abuse

base on yr postings in this thread, u r clearly BIAS and DISHONEST.

Ans : All the time, Kcchongnz substantiate with facts and figures. It is only you talk without facts and figures. Ask you to swear, you disappeared. Please be fair to others, show the proof if he is dishonest.
Thank you.

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 11:25 | Report Abuse

read yr own posts and similar one in other thread, see how u shoot yr own foot... and don't waste my time pointing out yr lobang.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-20 11:26 | Report Abuse

KC
No need to get worked up by such character.
Either missed the boat or defensive. Did not pay much attention to rubbish..and did not loose my energy.. haha

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 11:28 | Report Abuse

dear otb, talking about u.... hahahhahaaa... yr posts drift even more, from buy high sell higher to buy slow sell fast etc etc... aiyoyo hahahhahahaaaa... u switch stories even faster than the auntie.

siapa curi-tipu, siapa suka swear here swear there, only liar likes other to swear.

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2013-11-20 11:33 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 11:34 | Report Abuse

hahahahaa... siapa curi-tipu, siapa rasa pedas! hahahahaa...

Posted by oldpro > 2013-11-20 11:43 | Report Abuse

OTB, KCC,
Just ignore retards who repeat themselves cuz nothing else to say. We know who are the educated ones here

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 11:57 | Report Abuse

don't talk only, use the *famous 5 chop (or yard?) sticks or FCF to scrutinize this counter, download the latest qtr report, see how cash is generated, see page 8 performance review. see for yourself if there is BIAS and DISHONEST.

note this counter is related to troubled pmind, too. this is not a buy/sell call, pmcorp price still green as v speak, this is merely sharing a neutral view, yr $ yr choice!!

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-20 12:00 | Report Abuse

iafx peace pls... share price now 28.5

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 12:02 | Report Abuse

member, kua didn't start this if u look back, not sure why attacked bcos comment with cosway? sigh.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 12:10 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Nov 20, 2013 11:57 AM | Report Abuse
don't talk only, use the *famous 5 chop (or yard?) sticks or FCF to scrutinize this counter, download the latest qtr report, see how cash is generated, see page 8 performance review. see for yourself if there is BIAS and DISHONEST.
note this counter is related to troubled pmind, too. this is not a buy/sell call, pmcorp price still green as v speak, this is merely sharing a neutral view, yr $ yr choice!!

That is why I said you don't know what is Graham net net valuation. You have no clue of what I am talking about. You have no clue about finance and investment. You are making a bloody fool of yourself.

Not only that, you have no clue about what ColdEye's 5 yardsticks (please don't criticize ColdEye with your chopsticks) are. Don't agree with me? I challenge you to use ColdEye's 5 yardsticks to evaluate PM Corp.

You have no idea how to read income statement and balance sheet, not to say cash flow statement.

Take my challenge?

Posted by humbled > 2013-11-20 12:11 | Report Abuse

I think some previous posts explained the reason why the revenue is lower...

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 12:17 | Report Abuse

@member41, who is drawing a fight? u c for yourself. enough talking, juz use the *famous 5 chop (or yard?) sticks or FCF to scrutinize this counter, download the latest qtr report, see how cash is generated, see page 8 performance review. zero div, potential troubled mgmt. linked, large pile of "mystery" cash deposit... while many complaint about china counter having flaw account, sigh!

see for yourself if there is BIAS and DISHONEST, enough say... what a waste of time to a sunny day

Posted by davidkkw79 > 2013-11-20 12:23 | Report Abuse

iafx, u better take challenge from Kcchongnz, since you sound like u know fundamental. Don't be coward, just be brave to speak out urself said actually u really don;t know the real meaning of income statement, balance sheet & cash flow...

It is nothing to be shame u don't know. I think I also don't know, but maybe better than u.

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-20 12:24 | Report Abuse

hahahahaaa... david bro, pls read yr posts. hahhahaaaa...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 12:34 | Report Abuse

A very fair statement from david. This has nothing to do with his posts and why did you ask him to read his posts?

It is my accusation that you know nothing about financial statements. It is a strong statement from me you know. Why don't dare to take the challenge since you like to call me dishonest, tipu etc, just because I posted something you can't even understand? No balls ah?

david, I agree with you. You are much much better than him, any time.

Posted by davidkkw79 > 2013-11-20 12:40 | Report Abuse

Really ah? I thought I just a little better than iafx only, I didn't expect I much better than iafx lei.

But one thing I can be sure is, I have 2 balls can lend to iafx.

Posted by leslieroycarter > 2013-11-20 12:43 | Report Abuse

It shows positive trend , up n coming....

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 12:54 | Report Abuse

jchong,good afternoon.still buying more share on pmcorp. good luck. for me is "game over" as mention to ayamtua yesterday. will only up a cent or two and then prolong sideway(unless and until there is capital reduction cash payment ).this CASH payment is a MILLION DOLLAR question anyway; the truth will be out end-december.Have we ask ourselves this question? will the TAN SRI give back the cash available to shareholders? LOOK at the very BAD deal between MUI/PMCORP then when RM1.067b loan from pmcorp to MUI.the RM266m from pmcorp to PMI.pmcorp investment in unquoted share in CCM(huge losses).DEAR FORUMERS, this is personal views between me and johnchong and would sincerely from the bottom of my heart offer my humble apology if have indeed offended any peoples/friends in my previous posting.good luck and happy trading.

Posted by zu1967 > 2013-11-20 13:30 | Report Abuse

Thanks for yr info

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-20 13:39 | Report Abuse

Mike, thanks for your concern but not to worry as PMC/MUI is only in my 10% portion of my trading/investing 90/10 portfolio). My opinion only and NO offence to anybody, this will be a slow but steady counter from now on, after the recent euphoria, intuitively. Patience pays hopefully here. Ha ha.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-20 13:40 | Report Abuse

Walao, PM Corp today grow faster than my Zhulian.
Really potential.
U all must b happy to ride on PM Corp wave today. =)

Posted by omgimnoob > 2013-11-20 13:51 | Report Abuse

From the results, set aside the one off gain on selling of PPE, we can see the Export sales is catching up, increase a lot, probably in Singapore as per Calvin the sales in Singapore is good. But overall, much effort are needed to be on par with last year revenue.

The operating cash flow also improved, seems that the money that they received is from selling their products. With high sales without getting cash also equal to zero.

Regarding the cash and balance disclosed in accounts, even though it is from China, auditors must get confirmation from bank (whether is oversea or local bank) before it can be disclosed to public. Unless the banker from China helps the client to create fraudulent bank figures.

If shareholders are uncomfortable with the bank figures, request a due diligent on the cash and bank deposited in China then.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 14:00 | Report Abuse

Posted by mktwatch > Nov 20, 2013 11:05 AM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz, I checked again yr earlier cal. U did not add any % of PPE N iNVETMT Prop (0%) to arrive at yr N/N Working Cap/share of 0.294. Yr NOS of 773,357M includes the Treasury shares of 64,959,800 shares which not in circulation.
To cal BV, if I were to just take the Equity/NOS, I might inflate the BV from what's it's really worth (Intangibles, like Goodwill n Trademarks might not fetch its NBV in the event of a break-up). So, better to exclude Intangibles in BV cal.
I agree with, though, that the PPE might not be worth The NBV shown. Better to give, say, 70% value to its NBV.

mktwatch, you are right. Excellent analysis.

Yes, I didn't put any value on the PPE at all and there is quite a fair amount of it. Maybe you can use 50% of its value. I ignored investment properties also because it is a small amount. But rightfully it should be there, even at 100%.

I also didn't take into consideration of the treasury shares. You are right here again.

The end result is my Graham net net valuation is even more conservative with the above left out.

Good work mktwatch. You are good.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-20 14:09 | Report Abuse

Calvin
Why MANAGEMENT spending time and energy on the unproductive processes of returning the money, reduce the par value and then combine 4 into 1 to make par M$1? We do not measure the intrinsic value by par value.
Instead of returning the money, use it ASAP to upgrade and get new machinery and equipment to get better and fruitful results.

Apply "MAKE IT HAPPEN" slogan. You will hear less criticism.

Am practical and my 40+ engineers learn that and now only show me results even sometimes it seems impossible. I provide resources and support and they come back with results not problems. They know "Make it Happen" from..... Haha

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-20 14:19 | Report Abuse

Thanks, kcchongnz. I'm happy to get confirmation of my cal from a guy like you who's very well-versed with FA.

Posted by thor88 > 2013-11-20 14:52 | Report Abuse

no power to push up 30c

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 14:57 | Report Abuse

kcchong, good afternoon. could you please look through your crystalball once again, does the intrinsic value of 6.40 for ZHULIAN still stand(your comments somewhere in september).If yes I'll buy some today.thank you.

Posted by thor88 > 2013-11-20 15:02 | Report Abuse

today no hear Ayamtua in this forum

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 15:07 | Report Abuse

ayamtua laughing all the way to the bank to collect his money from pmcorp.haha

Posted by humbled > 2013-11-20 15:08 | Report Abuse

Prefer slow and steady lah bro. No offense to anyone...

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-20 15:16 | Report Abuse

ayamtua cash out already? he's in hexza more often these days

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 15:41 | Report Abuse

Posted by mikekong55 > Nov 20, 2013 02:57 PM | Report Abuse

kcchong, good afternoon. could you please look through your crystalball once again, does the intrinsic value of 6.40 for ZHULIAN still stand(your comments somewhere in september).If yes I'll buy some today.thank you.

Mike I got no crystal ball. When did I say the intrinsic value of Zhulian is RM6.40? The first time I talked about it, Zhulian share price was not even RM2.00, and that was less than a year ago, I think. So now Zhulian is 5+ already. What do you think?

Well I don't know how good is its overseas business, esp in Indonesia. It must be very exceptionally good to garner that kind of valuation now. I am in no position to know anything about it.

One thing we old timers must always remember, no matter how good a company is, it won't be a good investment if it is too expensive. In investing, risk means the probability that one won't get the return he wants in an investment, or even lose money. The higher the price in relation to its perceived intrinsic value, the higher the risk.

And one should never fall in love for a stock or company. We invest to get as much return as possible, not courting for a wife.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 15:58 | Report Abuse

kcchong i just saw your post in the ZHULIAN forum you posted that time price above 3.00. did mention something about growth 23% for 5 years. never mind chech and let you know. thank you

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-20 16:00 | Report Abuse

kokokoooooooookkkkkk!

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 16:01 | Report Abuse

kcchong you did make 3 posting on 24/9/13.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 16:05 | Report Abuse

AYAMTUA, make 5 digit today? congratulation.

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-20 16:06 | Report Abuse

Posted by AyamTua > Nov 20, 2013 04:00 PM | Report Abuse

kokokoooooooookkkkkk!
>>>>. Kokokokooook, gatai la nie,,,

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 16:08 | Report Abuse

Mike, you are right about my posting. Only if you believe Zhulian's earings can grow by 23% for the next 5 years. And I also mentioned that it will be a great and difficult feat and i won't bet on that. Last 5 years growth is only 10% a year.

Posted by kcchongnz > Sep 24, 2013 03:34 PM | Report Abuse X

The mathematics of discount cash flow analysis is exact. If I were to use the last year's growth in earnings of 23% for the next 5 years, and a required return of 10%, the intrinsic value of Zhulian will be RM6.40.

Alas, I don't have a crystal ball and I won't know its future growth rate. to me if a company can compound its growth rate of 15%, that is already very liberal, and I won't use that rate to justify my buying or even holding of a stock.

Zhulian has a compounded annual growth rate of 10% for the last 5 years. In my opinion, if it can sustain that kind of growth rate every year for the next 5 years, it is already quite a feat.

The high growth rate of a company cannot carry on forever. it eventually will slow down because of many factors; size, competitions, economic cycle etc.

Posted by thor88 > 2013-11-20 16:09 | Report Abuse

Posted by AyamTua > Nov 20, 2013 04:00 PM | Report Abuse

kokokoooooooookkkkkk!

baru bangun ke?

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 16:17 | Report Abuse

kcchong, I also believe too high already. anyway, thank you for your time.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-20 16:36 | Report Abuse

mikekong55, so happy to see zhulian still going up despite klse fall by 10.12 points.
They going very well in Thailand & some market share in Indonesia.
If they going to well in new Myammar market, I think I would eventually surpass Amway that only emphasize in Malaysia & Brunei.
Eventhough their growth rate might be slowed down in future, but that only makes the share price grow at a slower rate or stable.
Atleast safe & won't worry of riding roller coaster up & down.
Actually, their revenue & net profit is much higher than Amway. Just that they have a large number of shares, makes eps lower compared to Amway.
Today, market analysis set DSonic tp RM11 from RM7.50 now. DSonic revenue & net profit is nothing more than Zhulian.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-20 16:42 | Report Abuse

LIM, better listen to kcchong. look through all forum here for hidden gem.