Posted by ksng0307 > 2013-11-20 23:32 | Report Abuse

thank you, bro mike, have a good rest

Posted by leslieroycarter > 2013-11-21 07:29 | Report Abuse

pmcorp is trending +ve territory today , maybe hitting 33 cts , still going up recovering some lost grounds .....Cheers

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 07:32 | Report Abuse

Posted by mikekong55 > Nov 20, 2013 10:03 PM | Report Abuse
kcchong, through your write up in stock challenge; came across this stock PTARAS. I bought 20k of this in early feb/march'13 and intend to sell ex-dividend and ex bonus. am also still holding 2 quality stock in KSENG(20) & PRK CORP(50) bought also feb/march'13.should I hold for another 12 month? your words of advise is greatly appreciated here. thank you and good night.

How I wish I have six sense and able to see the future. However I have no such ability and I don't believe anybody has that ability. I am in fact very poor in guessing the future stock price.

I have no ability to read chart too. In that respect you are miles ahead. However, since you asked me so courteously, I think I should reciprocate that with my opinion, just my personal opinion.

Since you have read my writeup about how good and how good is the business of Pintaras and its performance, net margin>30%, ROE 20%, ROIC 30%, FCF 24% of revenue, 30% of invested capital and all that, you know that it is a good company, don't you?

However a good company is not necessary a good investment, it all depend the price, agreed? Pintaras since you have bought has risen in price for >50%. And that is just a few months ago. Isn't that too expensive now? Before you say yea or no, don't you think one has to have some numbers to justify that?

Based on the last financial report ending 30 June 2013, the PE ratio of Pintaras at RM6.19 now is 9.5. Is that high? What if I tell you it has an excess cash, cash not needed for its operations, of RM2.00? If you ignore this excess cash, what is its adjusted PE ratio right? Pintaras has zero debt too. Plenty of cash, no debt etc and I think a better market valuation would be enterprise value.

The enterprise value of Pintaras is just 6.5 times its ebit, or an earnings yield of 15.3%. Such low PE and EV/Ebit for a company with such high margin, ROE and ROIC, can you find another construction company in Bursa selling that cheap. I doubt so.

Again I don't know the future and my opinion is just mine.

Posted by iafx > 2013-11-21 07:57 | Report Abuse

net margin, ROE, ROIC, FCF % of revenue of pmcorp even higher! talking about ASSet, ROA, RONA of pmcorp even better since 2008! hahaHHaha...

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-21 08:08 | Report Abuse

A Very Good Morning from Calvin of Jurong West Singapore,

Kcchongnz. Yes!. Absolutely correct statement, "A good company is not necessary a good investment, it all depend on price." We can Overpay For All Good Things. Pintaras was one of my favourite counters among 130 that I sold.

Years back we call Pintaras among the 3 "P" penny stocks. Pintaras, Prinsiptek & Protasco. All were selling from 70 cents to 80 cents. Of the three Pintaras is the Star Performer, now over RM6.00. Protasco did well due to road paving projects. Of the three Prinsiptek did dismally. (We suspect hanky panky in Management)

I was puzzled why Pintaras outshine the other two "P"s. Then I met Lawrence Tan at OSK, The Champion. He said that of the 3 "P" Only Pintaras is Good. Because Pintaras did the piling job. And since this is the First Stage of Building Construction. Pintaras will "Get Paid First". No danger of bad debt Because Lawrence brothers were developers of the Sri Samudera Sea View Condominium in JB.

Lawrence Tan bought A Huge Block of Pintaras at RM1.40. And he(MG9231) posted here saying PM Corp is Actually A Second Liner among penny stocks.

In year 2006 Pintaras was traded around 76 cents. Seven years later. Pintaras is now over RM6.00. That is Our Reason and Hope For Long Term PM Corp Investors.

Will This "P" - PM Corp Perform Like Pintaras In Future Years? We Really Hope So.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 09:21 | Report Abuse

kcchong, thank you for your precious time and explanation. greatly appreciate it.

Posted by nch218 > 2013-11-21 09:23 | Report Abuse

Mr Kcchongnz, how is your view on Protasco?

Posted by ronaldo96 > 2013-11-21 09:25 | Report Abuse

no more surprise today...

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 09:37 | Report Abuse

Collect more if drop below 27

Posted by Vincent Than > 2013-11-21 09:48 | Report Abuse

morning everyone! mike, yea! i realize that its the basic but many people tend to forget @_@

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 09:51 | Report Abuse

calvin, always nice to read your comments. You talk about PM Corp's business, not like others always shouting about prices, not knowing there is a company behind the stock. Hope you read my post of Pintaras well because though Pintaras share price has gone up a lot, it may not mean it is already overvalued. It may be still way undervalued. Anyway, everybody has his own opinion and I am not saying mine is right and your is wrong. Just a few months ago this guy has been advising people to sell Pintaras at RM2.70 and talked all kind of bad things about Pintaras. He even engaged on personal attacks on me.

You mentioned about MG9231, now I remember he commented long ago in Pintaras' thread. You know we were the two lone rangers there. He is such a nice and humble man.


Posted by iafx > Feb 17, 2013 12:16 PM | Report Abuse

there is no securities house covering this counter - why? no need to reply here, go & do yr homework.

what a joke, tons of books/www/classes/software nowadays on how to read statement, find figure etc etc; what's so aiyaya about being able to read paper? especially copy & bs around it... sigh.

simple, should paper fact is so accurate, why ppl still cannot make enough based on it, why market does not respond accordingly since it is sooooo good as tau-fu claimed it is? in fact, many make loses following these papers, not to mention those who followed bs story.

ptaras solely a family business, no liquidity, core value is never about retail investors, they would rather place $ into private fun(d). mega infra prjs r not forever, after ge13 many will realize "lots of prjs in hand" on the "paper", but only few r running & probably not running at the size stated, not to mention not all running prjs make good $ - what u read is only lum-sum, data in the passed.

ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

god bless u ptaras to issue 1:1 bonus share, good luck all :)

Posted by tsurukame > 2013-11-21 09:52 | Report Abuse

Hi kcchongnz,
A Very Good morning to you and family,
Please advise on your take of intrinsic value of Daiman, Crescendo and KSL properties as these stocks have sizeable land bank in Iskandar region. Over a long term basis ,All these counters will be delivering good profits, EPS and increasing EPS. In the event that land price appreciate further say by 30%, 50%, 70% surge over long term basis , what is your intrinsic valuation of these companies when you sensitize the appreciation of the land prices in these three properties...KSL is a laggard as it has relatively higher debts but KSL city mall is worth a few hundred millions and KSL had ventured into Klang valley properties and there are talks of privatization......both crescendo and Daiman had appreciated in price. Except KSL, Diaman and Crescendo has paid relatively good dividends. Daiman management/owners are rather inactive....maybe they are just too comfortable...lacks drive....Crescendo is really active and are go getters as well as KSL..

Looking forward to your valued feedback on the sensitized intrinsic valuations.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 09:58 | Report Abuse

member41, be cautious

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-21 10:04 | Report Abuse

Found a Goldmine like PM Corp? Stick with it. Why sell and wander off?. Unless you have stock picking ability like kcchongnz

One of our friends sold his BJ Corp (years back) and went into Patimas.

Another "P"? Patimas? Heard that it is going to close shop soon.

So be careful. Don't sell a gold mine and wander from counter to counter. Or else you might step on a land mine some day.

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 10:07 | Report Abuse

mike: thanks man... just watching first :)

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 10:16 | Report Abuse

Posted by tsurukame > Nov 21, 2013 09:52 AM | Report Abuse

Hi kcchongnz,
A Very Good morning to you and family,
Please advise on your take of intrinsic value of Daiman, Crescendo and KSL properties as these stocks have sizeable land bank in Iskandar region. Over a long term basis ,All these counters will be delivering good profits, EPS and increasing EPS. In the event that land price appreciate further say by 30%, 50%, 70% surge over long term basis , what is your intrinsic valuation of these companies when you sensitize the appreciation of the land prices in these three properties...KSL is a laggard as it has relatively higher debts but KSL city mall is worth a few hundred millions and KSL had ventured into Klang valley properties and there are talks of privatization......both crescendo and Daiman had appreciated in price. Except KSL, Diaman and Crescendo has paid relatively good dividends. Daiman management/owners are rather inactive....maybe they are just too comfortable...lacks drive....Crescendo is really active and are go getters as well as KSL..

Looking forward to your valued feedback on the sensitized intrinsic valuations.

tsurukame, I have looked into those stocks you mentioned here before. Daiman was one of my strong picks as shown in the link below and I have played with all kinds of valuation on it too:

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_challenge_2013_2h/35908.jsp

KSL I don't fancy much but I have done some comparisons with others too as below:

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_challenge_2013_2h/36493.jsp

Crecendo I like it last time. But never looked at it for some time and not sure if the price worth the value now.

Posted by kcchongnz > Feb 23, 2013 05:03 PM | Report Abuse
ulalar, my opinion on your crescendo as follows:
Investors who have bought Crescendo at about RM1.10 3 years ago would have made a paper gain of 66 sen, or 60%, twice compared to a gain of 30% of the broad KLCI composite index during the same period. The long-term uptrend of its share price is still intact.
The share price of Crescendo started to rise gradually from the beginning of the year 2012 when it was apparent that the company has its financial performance improving. On 31/3/2012, Crescendo reported a huge 35% and 75% jump in revenue and net profit for the financial year ending 31/1/2012 to 290 m and 63.7 m respectively as compared to the previous year. Besides the big jump in sales, its net profit margin also improved drastically from 17% to 21%. These in turn improved the return of equity (ROE) from 7.5% to 12.9%. Thanks to the Southern Corridor in the Iskandar Development, in particular in Crescendo’s good sales in industrial buildings development and its construction activities.
The attractiveness of Crescendo as a long-term investment comes from its fairly low market valuation. With an earnings of 35 sen per share and a share price of RM1.76, Crescendo is trading at a PER of 5. The dividend yield of Crescendo is also very attractive at 8.5% for the last financial year.
Using a variety of discount cash flows methods with the assumption of 5% growth in earnings for the next 5 years and 3% terminal growth rate, and a discount rate of 12%, Crescendo’s intrinsic value is found to be between RM2.30 to RM2.75, with an average of RM2.53. There is a potential 43% upside compared to its share price of RM1.76. The margin of safety of investing in Crescendo is above 30%.
However, the Group's revenue and PBT for the nine months of the financial year ending 31 January 2013 decreased 4% to RM210.6 million and 24% to RM49.2 million respectively. The decreases in revenue and PBT were mainly due to lower sales in industrial properties. Despite of the lower profit, earnings per share is expected to be about 27 sen for the whole year. The prospective PE ratio is still not excessive at 6.5.
The future success of investing in Crescendo will depend on the success of of its Nusa Cemerlang Industrial Park and the other development in the Iskandar Development Corridor of which the government has fully committed on. With RM 444 million worth of land held for development under its balance sheet now, the chance of success for Crescendo appears to be bright.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 10:45 | Report Abuse

Posted by mktwatch > Nov 20, 2013 10:06 AM | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, I like to explore the concept of Book Value (BV), n esp as it applies to PMC. Can a company's BV be considered as it's break-up value, ie when a company closes its business operations n sells-off all its tangible assets n pays-off its liabilities. The BV per share would then be the amount a shareholder would expect to get back in such an event isn't it? This being the case, can we regard the difference one pays for the share (P) and the BV as a margin of safety?

So, in my earlier calculation, I added the per share value of PPE N Investment Property of PMC (0.046) to your N/N Working Cap/Share of 0.294 to arrive at 0.34 as the BV of PMC. Let's say I bought PMC yesterday @ 0.27 (P). Can my MOS be (0.34-0.27) ie 0.07 or 25.9% of P.
The P/BV ratio is 0.794 (79.4%). In other words, I got a discount of 20.6% for the shares compared to its BV (or Break-Up Value), and this is also another view of MOS?


mktwatch, after reading your post above, I thought about my Graham net net valuation of PMCorp again and have the opinion that my net net of 29.4 sen may be very conservative.

First of all, I totally ignored the 31.5m of it PPE. How could I give a zero value to this. This is no ordinary old plant and machinery, but much of it are properties, like the warehouse in Singapore just sold, the penthouse in Singapore which is way undervalued etc. there could be a lot of value here.

The investment part also may be undervalued as what calvin said is true, like the investment in Luarel Asley (? not sure of the name) etc.

So the net net value of PM Corp can be much higher than that. For me I always like to take a conservative approach when deciding if want to invest in a company. I seldom just listen to hearsay. I could be wrong here.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 10:52 | Report Abuse

LIM, found yet another GEM in UMS-NIKKEN GROUP BHD. please check this out.thank you

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 10:54 | Report Abuse

typing error neiken instead nikken

Posted by joe2703 > 2013-11-21 11:02 | Report Abuse

Good morning Kcchongnz, I've read most of your post and I know that you usually don't predict stock prices or give any recommendation, you are just sharing your thoughts based on the FA of the companies.

I just want to know do you think at the price of 0.28 now, PMCORP is still considered inexpensive? Although the was just 0.15 in September and it's almost double now.

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-21 11:20 | Report Abuse

kokokkkkk

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 11:33 | Report Abuse

Posted by joe2703 > Nov 21, 2013 11:02 AM | Report Abuse

Good morning Kcchongnz, I've read most of your post and I know that you usually don't predict stock prices or give any recommendation, you are just sharing your thoughts based on the FA of the companies.

I just want to know do you think at the price of 0.28 now, PMCORP is still considered inexpensive? Although the was just 0.15 in September and it's almost double now.

joe2703,
We should look at the value of a company now and in the future, not the past. Market price normally reflects its present value. So even if the stock price has risen a lot, market may not have memory of the past price. However, the market price may correct a bit due to the steep rise. That is the psychological part of it. It may not be because the price has risen above its true value.

My personal opinion that PM Corp at 28 sen is not expensive. Please read my Graham net net valuation based on its assets a couple of days ago in this thread.

However mktwatch has correctly pointed out that I may have underestimated its true net net value as I have ignored the PPE of 31.5m which I initially thought they are some old machinery and plant, but they are actually valuable assets like properties which could even be undervalued. And I have also ignored the treasury shares which if omitted could have given even higher net net value of PM Corp.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 11:35 | Report Abuse

AYAMTUA, guess correctly again. told you last week ;gap down 0.32 to 0.305 (13/11/13) on opening and now 0.32 form the resistant. the support level now stand @ 0.23. told you also prolong sideway and share price drift lower. no clear picture of capital reduction payment(all say only. this refer to "THE STAR" SUPPORT LINE by K M LEE for full details. happy trading.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 11:46 | Report Abuse

kcchong,your write up on most of the socks suit my style of investing(medium/long) came across WILLOW yesterday, and inwest88 told me analysis again done by you. Q3 financial result out yesterday EPS for Q3 2.22 for 9 months 5.32. my question is can buy now and keep another 10/12 months. think another gem in the making.thank you and hope not taking to much of your precious time.

Posted by humbled > 2013-11-21 11:53 | Report Abuse

I would prefer it slow and steady. Big up and big down will invite speculators and gamblers and discourage long term investing.

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 11:58 | Report Abuse

like sumatec? :D

Posted by humbled > 2013-11-21 12:03 | Report Abuse

Ya member41. Although i do not hv any sumatec shares but my bp also shot up on the sideline :). Not sure about the performance of sumatec. Even if it is a solid company, the price makes it looks like a goreng company.....

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-21 12:12 | Report Abuse

Humbled. I fully agree with you. We prefer modest price rise gradually. One cent or half cent up every week gradually would be fine. "No Pump & Dump here, please." Go elsewhere to do it.

I think there will be another "Surge" when "CASH PAY OUT" News Is Out. Please don't follow the crowd. Think longer term. Buying PM Corp is like saving & storing money in personal savings bank.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 12:22 | Report Abuse

Huangbk72, my average price for insas now 0.87.IF support of 0.85 broken will find another support @ 0.77/0.78.look like have to hold another month. wait for transfer of associate INARI to main board(INSAS holding 36% of inari). insas now also buying into HO HUP and hopefully join hand with FRB to privatised it. INSAS private own M&A securities in talk to takeover TA securities.have to wait for financial report next week;then take next course of action. no worry, this is undervalue stock (NTA 1.54) CASH in hand RM227m+. good luck to you.

Posted by leslieroycarter > 2013-11-21 13:31 | Report Abuse

look as if someone is suppressing its rise by selling lower to change the trend to -ve?

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-21 13:53 | Report Abuse

RE: PMC END OF DAY (EOD) CHART 20 NOV.:-
Observations:-
1. Immediate Support @ 0.275 - 0.28 (a classical-prior n multiple- resistance turned support zone.
2. A reverse hammer white candlestick (bullish, but needs confirmation in today's trades).
3. MACD histogram showed a Green, after 4 days of reds. Bullish.
4. Stochastic's %D (5 days) n %K lines have crossed the 20% oversold line n pointing upwards.
5. Significant high volume of 12.9M shares traded yesterday.
6. Immediate Resistance @ Retracement/Descending Gap Zone: 0.305-0.32.

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-11-21 14:01 | Report Abuse

mktwatch,Thank you very much.

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 14:04 | Report Abuse

mktwatch thanks so much for taking time to post all this valuable info

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 15:13 | Report Abuse

mktwatch, between me and you. I guess price will find support @ 0.255/0.265( from my trading experience) or right up to 0.245 (8xPER)

Posted by ronaldo96 > 2013-11-21 15:24 | Report Abuse

mikekong55 mktwatch, between me and you. I guess price will find support @ 0.255/0.265( from my trading experience) or right up to 0.245 (8xPER)

Mikekong, Pump & Dump?

Posted by davidkkw79 > 2013-11-21 15:38 | Report Abuse

mikekong55; mktwatch; ronaldo96, between me and you all. I guess price will find support @ 0.25/0.290( from my simple guest)

Ronaldo96, buy in & sell out ?

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 15:45 | Report Abuse

huangbk72, this morning did you buy some more INSAS. hope can hold 0.875/0.88 level;only then can challenge resistant 0.90/0.905 tomorrow.

Posted by ronaldo96 > 2013-11-21 15:46 | Report Abuse

davidkkw76, follow calvin

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-21 16:03 | Report Abuse

Posted by mikekong55 > Nov 21, 2013 11:46 AM | Report Abuse

kcchong,your write up on most of the socks suit my style of investing(medium/long) came across WILLOW yesterday, and inwest88 told me analysis again done by you. Q3 financial result out yesterday EPS for Q3 2.22 for 9 months 5.32. my question is can buy now and keep another 10/12 months. think another gem in the making.thank you and hope not taking to much of your precious time.

Yes, I have written an analysis of Willow as shown in the link below:

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_challenge_2013_2h/35487.jsp

In that post I have also made a valuation of Willow based on simple Gordon dividend growth model using an assumption that dividend will be growing at 3% forever, and a discount rate of 10%. The intrinsic value is 83 sen. And that was based on the result of last financial year.

Now three quarters have passed and willow's earnings has grown by 30%. So do you think the assumption of growth of dividend just 3% a year sustainable? Or may can it even grow at a higher rate which will give a higher intrinsic value of Willow?

So you have to make that judgement yourself.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 16:06 | Report Abuse

kcchong, thank you.

Posted by spider99 > 2013-11-21 16:25 | Report Abuse

one day show?

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 16:35 | Report Abuse

spider99, next monday got show.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 16:37 | Report Abuse

AYAMTUA, what price you went in WILLOW?

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 16:47 | Report Abuse

will it below 27? come to poppa

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-21 16:52 | Report Abuse

member41 you still haven't take profit?

Posted by member41 > 2013-11-21 16:58 | Report Abuse

hi mike i actually sold just after you... but a bit itchy to buy some now

Posted by papa > 2013-11-21 17:01 | Report Abuse

Agree Calvin said that see after this year.

Posted by Huangbk72 > 2013-11-21 17:05 | Report Abuse

My humble opinion.

When investing in a share or company for the long run.. just don't worry too much if it doesn't move or drop.

Once you are sure that you are buying the company share at discount to their value, u can hardly go wrong.

Just let the management do their work and we reap the rewards later.

Don't overstress and suffer burnout. Once you gain wealth, u will need your health to enjoy it.

Posted by heavyth > 2013-11-21 17:21 | Report Abuse

bought at 29.5..will hold for long term !!

Posted by humbled > 2013-11-21 17:52 | Report Abuse

Huang, agree with you 100%. That's why i am holding this long term too. I can't monitor the share movement all the time because of my job and I found it stressful but for now I am kind of hoping the price to drop a little so I can collect more :) sorry guys.