Posted by Ahahah > 2022-09-08 12:20 | Report Abuse

Once OTB stop cursing, then it is time for HY to move up. Wait and see.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 12:20 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 12:21 | Report Abuse

Posted by Ahahah > 33 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Once OTB stop cursing, then it is time for HY to move up. Wait and see.
-------------
Please stop, not relevant here.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:25 | Report Abuse

So LC amount is at here lah.

Other receivables and prepayments = RM 1,675,720,000


Then this one ada payment term kah.
Trade receivables = RM 2,163,459,000


Mana ada all are COD term lah. Correct?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 12:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:29 | Report Abuse

Why all COD or LC term. Why ada such thing less impairment leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


Less: Impairment of receivables (28,841,000).

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:31 | Report Abuse

You mean ppl OKU like Ular. Heart pain leh. Macam ada pisau cucuk kat hati leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by Income > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Orang Tidak Berupaya, who wants to challenge a Greedy fellow. Even though already millionaires but still greedy ambil subscribers. Kyy also last time asked Orang Tidak Berupaya to reject subscribers, but until now still Greedy and cursing people here.
Kyy at least don’t care about people comments but not this so call good moral Orang Tak Berupaya person

To tell you all here, above are all my conclusions about Orang Tak Berupaya. Full stop.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 12:35 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 12:35 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Jeffbkt > 2022-09-08 12:35 | Report Abuse

Whether HY is a good company to invest, who can be 100% sure or guarantee, if cannot why talk bad about others. Investment is not about you can know the result immediately like gambling. No point to argue now. Lets see the share price in the nest couple of months. Good or bad investment later only comment and have a good lesson learn. This forum supposed to discuss not cursing. For example, if you have concern then ask for help and I believe someone will help but decision is on yours. If you believe and later lose money dont curse others, it is your decision. If you dont believe then move on to others counter no need to speculate here that the one trying to help is a con man whatever trying to lure you into supporting the share. Hope we can all agree on disagreement and be gentlemen to whatever outcome after decision made. Lets put all the cursing behind and move forward

Posted by klee > 2022-09-08 12:37 | Report Abuse

This forum has to be the champion forum for vulgarities.Unfortunately this is not the champion forum for capital appreciation.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:38 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:39 | Report Abuse

Got lah. Capital appreciation by buy low sell high lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by klee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

This forum has to be the champion forum for vulgarities.Unfortunately this is not the champion forum for capital appreciation.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 12:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 12:39 | Report Abuse

Posted by Mikecyc > 16 seconds ago | Report Abuse
On OTB , we can learned TA n debate against him with facts n figures…so far as I did , he is ok
-------
Thank you for your good words.

I have no time to talk and I refused to talk here.
I just want to learn something that I do not know.
Why want to attack me ?
I really cannot understand.
I try to stay away to avoid any misunderstand.
Still have many naysayers to attack me without facts.
I am very hurt, hence I resort to counter attack.

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-08 12:41 | Report Abuse

Shopping season has just started. Christmas could come early this year in November.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:41 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Jeffbkt > 2022-09-08 12:41 | Report Abuse

AMANAHRAYA Trustees Berhad Amanah Saham Bumiputera 10,629,100 3.5434
Citigroup Nominees (Tempatan) Sdn Bhd Employees Provident Fund Board7,590,647 2.530

UlarSawa, if you are so sure that HY is con counter, please help us to protest in front of EPF.

Posted by Vicky > 2022-09-08 12:44 | Report Abuse

Time to reduce holdings or face consequences as oil retreat more prior Fed meeting.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 12:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:51 | Report Abuse

Did Ular cakap HY is a con company. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Jeffbkt > 8 minutes ago | Report Abuse

AMANAHRAYA Trustees Berhad Amanah Saham Bumiputera 10,629,100 3.5434
Citigroup Nominees (Tempatan) Sdn Bhd Employees Provident Fund Board7,590,647 2.530

UlarSawa, if you are so sure that HY is con counter, please help us to protest in front of EPF.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-08 12:52 | Report Abuse

Dear Jeffbkt, HY is not a kon counter. FYI, 4 out of 6 directors are Malaysian, they all have good many years experience. Nothing shady about any of them at all. The parent company, Hengyuan Shandong Petrochemical Co. Is a state own china enterprise and do business since 1979. Nothing shady about Hengyuan.

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-08 12:52 | Report Abuse

Good atmosphere indeed ! The share price just turned below 4.50, things already heating and haywire. Just imagine revisiting 4 soon. This is street public room and why mercy and spare the roasters ? Blatant cronyism even in the street forum.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:53 | Report Abuse

Got millions can shop everyday lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


BobAxelrod

2,872 posts

Posted by BobAxelrod > 11 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Shopping season has just started. Christmas could come early this year in November.

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 12:54 | Report Abuse

Sslee,
No fair to post it here.
Did I attack anyone here ?
I never attack anyone in I3.
I just counter the attack only.
I will counter attack them directly in a gentleman way and honest way.
I did not write in this forum for sometime, why still want to attack me ?
Just a few naysayers only in I3.

I feel very sad and hurt that this posting is from Sslee.
Very disappointed.

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-08 12:55 | Report Abuse

Website of hengyuan parent company www.hyshjt.com

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-08 12:56 | Report Abuse

How you know is not shady company. You working inside the company. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by tehka > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Dear Jeffbkt, HY is not a kon counter. FYI, 4 out of 6 directors are Malaysian, they all have good many years experience. Nothing shady about any of them at all. The parent company, Hengyuan Shandong Petrochemical Co. Is a state own china enterprise and do business since 1979. Nothing shady about Hengyuan.

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 12:57 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cK1973 > 2022-09-08 12:58 | Report Abuse

bagus sudah 4 steng....
saya tunggu kat 3 steng ma....
agak agak boleh sampai EP saya la....
tunggu dulu.....

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 13:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:02 | Report Abuse

HY delivered the best ever EPS (at almost half of its market cap)....

and yet, purely due to GROSS MISPERCEPTION on the meaning of the below two clauses, it has market thinking HY earnings will revert back to its earlier earnings.

1. Cash flow hedge reserve (CFH), &
2. Cost of hedging reserve (COHR)

...............

The figures of the above reported in OCI of HY Q2 results, was purely to do with the effects of the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) that HY had entered.

Cash flow hedge (CFH) are simply ineffective (loss/gain) hedge portions of the RMSC which has been liquidated (settled) as of 30th June and awaiting respective physical market transaction to take place to offset these hedging losses.

Only when physical sales & purchase of the commodity takes place it can be reflected on P&L statement.

Reference:

'When does Cash Flows Hedge Reserves (under OCI) gets transferred to P&L?'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCSncmfB8k


Whereas, Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is simply the following:

Forward looking Mark-to-market estimate of the difference between the fixed price (hedged) and the future spot price multiplied by the notional quantity and discounted back to a present value based on a reasonable discount rate determined by the producer.

If one understands the above, it shall be perfectly clear why both (CFH & COHR) are not reported in P&L statement.

Think about it - if its a real loss they will surely reflect it as and when its known on P&L instantly.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:03 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Sep 8, 2022 7:27 AM | Report Abuse

2021 annual report page 132

Cash flow hedge reserve and cost of hedging reserve:

The cash flow hedge reserve is used to record gains and losses on derivatives that are designated and qualify as cash flow hedges and that are recognised in other comprehensive income. Amounts are reclassified to profit or loss when the associated hedged transaction affects profit or loss.

The cost of hedging is seen as cost of achieving the risk mitigation inherent in the hedge. It is incurred to protect the Company against unfavourable changes in price. The changes in the cost of hedging is initially recognised in other comprehensive income and removed from equity and recognised in profit or loss in the same period that the hedged cash flows affect profit or loss.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:03 | Report Abuse

Fair estimation:
...............

Even if we assume the RMSC covers complete Gasoline production capacity of 35% yield x 10.6 million, 3.7 million barrels, you are securing the below gross profit after hedging losses or gain.

= 3.7 million x 12.7 USD/brl x 4.45 ex
= 209 million MYR.....(1)

No matter what the figures are reported on CFH & COHR, they are purely trying to show the ineffectiveness / effectiveness of the hedging but the profit contribution remains the same.

The CFH shows how much 'opportunity for greater profit than 209 million / per qtr' is confirmed loss while COHR shows potential loss if the scenario prolongs indefinitely for the balance notional value.

For every negative value on CFH & COHR that will take place, there will be equally higher gross profit in future physical market transaction where after deducting the hedging loss anticipated, you will report the same 209 million for gasoline per qtr.


For the balance refined products diesel, jet fuel and others (10.7 - 3.7 = 7 million barrels per qtr) , you have the following:

1. Diesel at 46% yield, cracks USD 50.36/bbl
2. Jet fuel at 7% yield, cracks USD 38.40/bb
3. Rest of product yield at 12%, using Mogas 95 cracks USD 7.77/bbl

Gross refining margin/brl:

= (0.46 x 50.4 ) + (0.07 x 38.40) + (0.12 x 7.77)
= (23.18 + 2.70 + 0.93)/ (0.65)
= US $ 41.2 / brl

Gross Profit :

= (7 million barrel sales per qtr) x ( US $41.2/brl) x (MYR 4.45/USD)
= 1.283 Billion MYR........(2)


Total gross profit after hedging gain / loss: (1) + (2)
= 1.483 Billion MYR

EPS will be exceeding RM 3 per QTR

The above is what we will obtain going forward if the Diesel & Jet Fuel margins are stable around there. The hedging losses reported on page 8 (438 million) are the effects of monthly hedging of Diesel & Jet fuel as all refinery does (refer my article on Q2 results prediction earlier) and this is expected to become zero as crack spread stabilizes from month to month.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:04 | Report Abuse

Rock bottom EPS analysis
.........................

let us assume as extreme conservative scenario where 50% of HY throughput is hedged where they will only reflect hedge margin at 10 USD/brl, with the balance free to capture market margin

1. Diesel at 46% yield, cracks USD 50.36/brl
2. Jet fuel at 7% yield, cracks USD 38.40/brl
3. Gasoline at 35% yield, cracks USD 7.77/brl
3. Rest of product yield at 12%, using Mogas 95 cracks USD 7.77/brl

Gross profit from (Hedged) portion:
..............................

= (10.7 million x 50%) x (10 USD/brl) x (MYR 4.45/USD)
= 238 million MYR .....(1)



Gross profit (UN-HEDGED) portion:
............................

Refining margin/brl:

= (0.46 x 50.4 ) + (0.07 x 38.40) + (0.35 x 7.77) + (0.12 x 7.77)
= (23.18 + 2.70 + 2.72 + 0.93)
= US $ 29.5 / brl

Gross profit:
= (10.7 million x 50%) x (29.5 USD/brl) x (MYR 4.45/USD)
= 702 million MYR ......(2)



Total gross profit (1) + (2)
= 238 + 702
= 940 million MYR

PBT = 840 million
PAT = 638 million
EPS = 2.12

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:04 | Report Abuse

as predicted, Diesel Crack exploded to 55 USD/brl...

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYMEX-GZ1!/

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:05 | Report Abuse

worth spending 5 min to understand though the english is quite difficult to grasp. After 3 minutes into the overview, the main part comes and its easy to understand.

'When does Cash Flows Hedge Reserves (under OCI) gets transferred to P&L?'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCSncmfB8k

Posted by probability > 2022-09-08 13:06 | Report Abuse

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) , loss / gain: (A-M) x V

A = hedged crack spread value, 12.7 USD/brl
V = barrels volume of refined products hedged, 18 million
M = Marked to Market pricing of the hedged refined product at end of reporting period (mark to market)

Since at the end of June 22', the avg crack spread of the refined products, e.g gasoline at 31.6 USD/brl, the opportunity lost for the period of hedging is

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 31.6) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= - 338 million USD or MYR 1,490,267,000

...

Now lets see what happens when say at end of Sept 22, Gasoline crack drops to its usual average of 5.7 USD/brl

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 5.7) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= 90 million USD or gain of MYR 395,000,000

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 13:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-08 13:08 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-08 13:13 | Report Abuse

Posted by Mikecyc > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse
Haha and Risk Committee , Mr Wang from China is redesigned to Chairman of Risk Committee on 28/2/2022 :
Posted by Mikecyc > 0 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Haha just for info : BOD - Both China chair man n Deputy chairman r in Control ….
On 4/8/2021 .. Finland CEO is resigned , replaced by a China CEO …
----------------
It is very difficult to invest, we study the stock from all information available only.
It is very difficult to study until very details like the board of directors and CEO or extra.
Based on the Q2 2022 result, can produce good results.
Hope that all directors or CEO will do their best for Hengyuan to get fantastic results in FY2020.

Posted by Ali123456 > 2022-09-08 13:15 | Report Abuse

Mr OTB,
May I suggest you to IGNORE those whose objective is to irritate you purposely. Don't fall into their trap and don't get upset about them. The more you respond with anger they happier they are. Just ignore them and they will suffer the retribution eventually.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-08 13:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-08 13:18 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-08 13:21 |

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Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-08 13:21 | Report Abuse

We are here for sharing and for good Info.....

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 13:24 |

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Posted by Ali123456 > 2022-09-08 13:25 | Report Abuse

This world is definately a better place to live if people like qqq333, moneymakers, Jerichomy just vanish! They are real troublemakers!

Posted by OTB > 2022-09-08 13:26 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by vinc3362 > 2022-09-08 13:31 | Report Abuse

For OTB haters, grow some balls lah............
You guys know where he works, go talk to him face to face lah. Stop poisoning this forum.
OTB already in his sixties and he is not a MMA boxer, so why so scared to face off with him?