Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-21 17:31 | Report Abuse

Regarding the ESOS, i feel it is not easy to place a judgement by outsiders who don't know about the company. Companies do reward their employees with ESOS to motivate their employee so that they have the incentives to work harder to improve the operations of the company, its top and bottom lines; and hopefully eventually translate to increase in the share price of the stock, and hence enhance shareholder value. The exercise price I believe was decided long ago when Kfima share price was maybe around 1.60 (not sure of that) and hence the average price of a certain duration was used to determine the exercise price, with a discount, say 10%. The amount of ESOS, I think is capped to a maximum of 3%. ESOS, if done properly, is a win-win proposition and aligning the interest of management and shareholders. As far as I can see, the shareholders' value has been enhanced for the last 10 years continuously.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-21 17:34 | Report Abuse

WB principle can only apply to reit counter? skyboy always screw Genting? How is it related to Kfima? No, I don't know what you mean. Please elaborate.

Posted by Hustle > 2013-01-21 19:52 | Report Abuse

Hi kcchong no intense to offense,I'm not criticize what you invest.But regarding to investment behavior,please don't idolize the counter since she is not Andy Lau or Sally Yip.Just judge on whether how the management rewards it's investor time by time.i.e. YTL Corp is a huge cash generator,but I'm believe that their investors mostly are not very happy.may be,you can have some conversation with them and get some feed back regarding to the investment return proportion to the time frame they have spend for.

Posted by pradeep > 2013-01-21 23:11 | Report Abuse

Guys as I said earlier Kfima is a fundamental stock and if the market crash better for us so get a chance to collect more.

Posted by chongkonghui > 2013-01-22 01:12 | Report Abuse

Agreed with pradeep, bad time is good time to buy/accumulate.

problem is how much is good price?

sure we can't buy 1.48 as we do not work inside KFIMA as senior management.

so, can't complaint that they got it at 1.48 and we buy at 1.89 (today) or 2.00 (last week).

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 01:13 | Report Abuse

haha ... buy buy buy . dont miss out the mega sale . but be careful dont end up buying bad apple with worm

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2013-01-22 01:25 | Report Abuse

Today (Monday), even a counter with a mere 3 sen gain can be in the Top 10. This is the sharpest and broadest correction I've seen in the past 12 months or so.

Posted by carynchua > 2013-01-22 01:28 | Report Abuse

JASON80, mind to recommend some good apples, not the super blue chips. tq

Posted by chongkonghui > 2013-01-22 01:31 | Report Abuse

Haha... Black Monday? May be not yet...

Foreign selling, convert to USD at good rate and runaway before the boat is shaken.

Anyhow, RM1.89 is not expensive to buy.

One expects to buy lowest may never bought anything.
One expects to sell highest may never cash out...

Posted by Najib Zamry > 2013-01-22 11:55 | Report Abuse

I am still holding on it. Why should I sell?

Posted by Najib Zamry > 2013-01-22 11:56 | Report Abuse

whether erection or election for me is a non issue.

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 12:02 | Report Abuse

erection ? hold on. dont do it here. go else where

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 12:07 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Jan 21, 2013 04:23 PM | Report Abuse X
Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > Jan 21, 2013 04:12 PM | Report Abuse
lets just be honest here, i sold kfima at 1.99 around last 2 weeks... anyone else sold kfima too? Nz , kcchong , gark ?
Fei mau why u so clever one? No i have not sold any; not a good timer myself. For the rest you mentioned, I think I can safely say that they too have not sold any.

Posted by Najib Zamry > Jan 22, 2013 11:56 AM | Report Abuse
whether erection or election for me is a non issue.

Fei mau,
See, I told you so. If one knows and appreciates the value of Kfima, he won't sell unless it goes up by at least 50% more.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 12:09 | Report Abuse

Just followed OTB (and also Pang Tin) to buy some Kimlun shares.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 12:12 | Report Abuse

if i buy back at 1.89 now, i profit from the difference of 10 cents and still get my kfima shares back, so why would i wanna keep holding it when i get 5-10% paper gain? buybackma.. lol

everythings have a price, instead of stubbornly holding on it, why dont benefit from the fluctuation?

Posted by Najib Zamry > 2013-01-22 12:16 | Report Abuse

Everyone has their own strategies, so there is no right or wrong.

If one do not comfortable just sell it...

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2013-01-22 12:24 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 12:29 | Report Abuse

fei mau, you happened to do the right thing in selling Kfima at 2.02(?) a few days ago, retrospectively. If I have done that, I would be very happy and probably would have bought Kfima back at around 1.90. But frankly tell me, did you foresee the market would drop so badly these two days that you could make accurate predictions, consistently, and profit like this? If your answer is affirmative, I think fei mau, you have great future and probably can become billionaires soon.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 12:34 | Report Abuse

NZ, you are right, im not comfortable with the esos, cpo price, dividend payout ratio and the management team.

i had check hundreds of company website and their annual report, but kfima website does not show it group structure.

They show their subsidiaries and associated company , yes, but it does state how many % of shares they have in all this company. And i cant find the % at their annual report either.

ermm.. if someone find out the info of how many % kfima have in it subsidiaries and associated company, please post the link here ok? :D thx first!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 12:56 | Report Abuse

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > Jan 22, 2013 12:34 PM | Report Abuse
NZ, you are right, im not comfortable with the esos, cpo price, dividend payout ratio and the management team.

Yeah, if I am not comfortable with the business of the company or its management, I won't even buy their shares too. But is there really a great concern in Kfima? I want to know badly too if there is.

Regarding the concern of ESOS, I have put forward my points yesterday. I hope others can put forward their points too with his rationales; don't just make a sweeping statement. cpo price, well this is cyclic; good cpo price, make more money, low cpo price, make less money. Every plantation company is affected temporary. For Kfima, palm oil is just 30% of its business. Does it really affect its bottom line that severely? Dividend payout ratio, not my concern, 9 sen gives dividend yield of more than 4%, better than FD. Besides there is growth potential because most free cash flows used for capex, like buying palm oil estate for the future growth. The management team? Yes, that would be the most important thing for me. But I can't find anything wrong with the management, do you? For the last 10 years, shareholders value has been enhanced every year, with higher profit, higher dividend, and also higher share price. I don't see any serious RPT too. Is there something bad about the management which we don't know? I am dying to know this too. Can someone shed some light?

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:03 | Report Abuse

not 4.7% , it is 3.57% , i means the dividend yield, why?

because you still have to divide 25% taxes from the 9 cents dividend, which make the dividend actually at 6.75 cents.

0.0675 / 1.89 = 3.57%

for everybody ... affin bank offer 3.6% annual FD rate, still better than kfima dividend + no risk at all.

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:17 | Report Abuse

haha .. those investing share for dividend n bonus seem so ... . dont want to offence people . go to unit trust to , give divedend , price adjusted . so dividend is cut off from ur own money to give u back ur money . unless ur stock o unit trust is super bull , give dividend then still fly

Posted by Najib Zamry > 2013-01-22 13:23 | Report Abuse

Do your research by looking at annual report and company website is applaudable but it is not good enough....

Attend the GM is the only way to get the latest update for small shareholder.

As mentioned in the AGM, Kfima will pay at least 10 sen per share nett dividend this year since they have equivalent 10 sen per share of tax credit. If they do not pay by this year, the whole amount will be forfeited.

Would CPO price affect the result performance of Kfima? check their second quarter result announced in Dec 2011 which actually shows 10% increase in profit. Dun ask me why there was such an increase while the other so called plantation company recorded significant drop in profit? If you still think that Kfima is a pure planatation company than good luck to you man.

One can do creative accounting with their profits but it would be very difficult to manipulate their net cash flow. Just check how Kfima able to record good positive net cash flow for the past 5 years then you will know what I mean.

Again, please do not meddle with this stock if you have no confidence at all as there are still many stocks out there.

Do you know better than Mark Mobius whose Templeton Funds( Emerging Asia Equity funds) quietly accumulating this stock since 1.80? Dun ask me where I get the info and I am sure you have way to find it. If being kampung investor I can find the info, then you can do it too.

Please don not waste your valuable time here.

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:27 | Report Abuse

hey like i said . if paying dividend n price still keep going up . i believe this stock is a good stock . but if paying dividend price declined ... then not purpose . better put in fd

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:28 | Report Abuse

im seeking for the group structure % here.. nobody wanna help me :(

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:31 | Report Abuse

haha .. maybe nobody know

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:34 | Report Abuse

d.singh is right about the public perspective on some particular company.

it is not what you, me or him think, it is what most of the people think, if kfima is such a good stocks, why recently it plunge from 2.11 to 1.85?

if the intrinsic value is RM 3 or RM 4.5 (LOL) , why investors still selling it?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 13:34 | Report Abuse

fei mau, you very good in maths. Maybe for education sake, lets discuss in further details. Company declared dividend has been taxed at 25% and shareholders received the dividend check with tax deducted. Kfima's dividend has been given out with tax imputations. Shareholders have to pay tax on the gross dividend. If a shareholder's marginal tax rate is say 10%, he can claim back 15% (25%-10%). But of course if your marginal tax rate is more than the company tax rate, you won't get back any tax paid by the company. Retirees who has no more income would get back all the 25% paid off by the company. so in this case, the dividend yield is 4.7%, not 3.57%. So it depends on your marginal tax rate. Agreed with you that when one invest in equity, there is risk involved and hence a rational person wold demand a return (not dividend yield) higher than the bank FD rate, which we call it as risk-free rate.
Return of investing in shares is made up of two portions, a dividend plus a capital gain in the future. Dividends is made up of dividend next year, the following years with a growth in this dividend (hopefully), and the price of share when you sell it say a few years later. The share price you sell later may be higher (or lower) depending if there is a growth in earnings and cash flows from its business, plus if Mr Market will give it a higher or lower valuation in the future. This will depend on its business and its growth prospect etc. So don't just focus too much on dividend yield. The future growth of the business and hence its share price appreciation is more important. Company pays out too much dividend is because there is no potential of reinvesting its cash flows for future growth.

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:35 | Report Abuse

ya .. i like fai mau comment .

Posted by fandi > 2013-01-22 13:37 | Report Abuse

yes, that's why NZ said please get out of this stock since you have so many questions to this company. Just move on. So simplelah

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:40 | Report Abuse

haha ... why so mad . u in this stock ?

Posted by fandi > 2013-01-22 13:41 | Report Abuse

kepala pusing I lah....

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:42 | Report Abuse

haha ... why want to pusing . nanti patah

Posted by esegaban > 2013-01-22 13:42 | Report Abuse

Buy call...

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:42 | Report Abuse

no , kcchong, we dont need to pay taxes on kfima dividend.

it just that they announce paying 9 cents dividend with a 25% taxes, but what actually go into your bank account is 6.75 cents, it is a fixed 25% taxes.

many listed company practice with the T.E taxes exempt system already, but some company like kfima still use the old system.

im not so good in explaining, i hope u do understand what im try to say here..

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:47 | Report Abuse

questions is good, if you have doubt , you question it and you get your answer , so that you can make better decision.

agree or not?

and.. somebody pls kindly post the group structure information link here ,pls, thank you.. :D

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 13:51 | Report Abuse

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > Jan 22, 2013 01:34 PM | Report Abuse
d.singh is right about the public perspective on some particular company.
it is not what you, me or him think, it is what most of the people think, if kfima is such a good stocks, why recently it plunge from 2.11 to 1.85?
if the intrinsic value is RM 3 or RM 4.5 (LOL) , why investors still selling it?

Oh i c, you got that statement from d.singh. Yeah I agree with the statement too. It doesn't matter the statement comes from who. But why you still ask this "if kfima is such a good stocks, why recently it plunge from 2.11 to 1.85?"

And why you laugh out so loud that someone says its intrinsic value is 4.50? I think I know who is that someone you are laughing so loud at. I guess my defend for this person is you probably don't know how people compute intrinsic value of a company, the data and assumptions involved etc. Why investors sell it if the IV is so high? Isn't that your statement already preempt it?

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 13:51 | Report Abuse

yup. if have doubt should ask

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 13:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > Jan 22, 2013 01:42 PM | Report Abuse
no , kcchong, we dont need to pay taxes on kfima dividend.
it just that they announce paying 9 cents dividend with a 25% taxes, but what actually go into your bank account is 6.75 cents, it is a fixed 25% taxes.
many listed company practice with the T.E taxes exempt system already, but some company like kfima still use the old system.
im not so good in explaining, i hope u do understand what im try to say here..

fei mau, can you read what i wrote and try to understand what is tax imputation system (the old system which is applicable to Kfima's dividend payment).

From 2013 onwards, there is no more tax imputation system. We call the system as single tier dividend. If then Kfima declares 9 sen dividend, all 9 sen goes to your bank account. No claiming back of tax difference.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 13:59 | Report Abuse

hahaha.. i have a slightly dislike feeling toward those ppl that always type their name in the back of every reply.. lol.

intrinsic value improve in time, so it is not important to give stocks a price target that sound so absurd at the moment , it have no Point to do it, just saying man.

and otb the dude, his doji and TA is just ridiculous, i have to balance it out..

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 14:39 | Report Abuse

fei mau, I respect your view on no point of doing and knowing the value of a company. Many people are like you. There is no right or wrong in investing/trading. But there is a basic behaviour we must have in a civilized society; that is respect others the same as you expect others to respect you.

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 14:43 | Report Abuse

hey fat cat. for ur inform .. mr ooi is a successful trader . does give him a respect. nothing wrong put ur name at the end of comment . okay

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2013-01-22 15:13 | Report Abuse

what did i do? did i insult him? lol..

his doji is never going to work, buy high and sell higher is like dumb and dumber.

if you all think im too straight forward, and it offense someone , then im truly am sorry..

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 15:14 | Report Abuse

u are wrong again...

Posted by JASON80 > 2013-01-22 15:16 | Report Abuse

uying uptrend stock have more potential to go higher . buying downtrend stock will go lower even it cheap . but i think i dont need to explaine for u as i did not earn anything n get scolded by u . jz only his method is different then my
happy investing .

Posted by Titicamara > 2013-01-22 17:55 | Report Abuse

As Ben said: "In the short run,
the market is a voting machine but in the long run it is a
weighing machine." The speed at which a business's success is
recognized, furthermore, is not that important as long as the
company's intrinsic value is increasing at a satisfactory rate.
In fact, delayed recognition can be an advantage: It may give us
the chance to buy more of a good thing at a bargain price.

Warren Buffett's 1987 chairman's letter.

Posted by chongkonghui > 2013-01-22 18:38 | Report Abuse

yes, above statement is absolutely correct for me.

given me 2nd chance to buy more at below 1.90.

Posted by chongkonghui > 2013-01-22 18:41 | Report Abuse

About the Single Tier vs. Section 108 Balance Dividend. Actually, 31.12.2013 is the last day any company can declare "Old" system i.e. Section 108 Dividend.

So, from now till 31.12.2013, KFIMA can still declare 9 sen less 25% tax.

By the way, any news announced on the 9 sen less 25%?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-22 20:29 | Report Abuse

chongknghu, you ar right about the last day of secton 108 divdend, ie nd of ths year. NZ said Kfima has 10 sen section 108 dividend this year and hence it is highly likely that this would be the amount of dividend this year. Sharholders would get 10 sen less 25% or 7.5 sen per share credited ito his account. However, retirees who have no more income would be able to claim back this 2.5 sen from income tax. Others can claim back part of it, depending on his marginal tax rate.

Posted by KAHFIEHLAI > 2013-01-22 20:59 | Report Abuse

the Q'tion is VOL too small over the time..