Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 09:38 | Report Abuse

don't drive by looking at rare view mirror

not meant to poke either



Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 9, 2019 9:36 AM | Report Abuse

Not meant to be poking, but legitimate discussion. Armada gearing up to win all those contracts back then was a major factor in me not investing in the stock.

Posted by bgt9963 > 2019-07-09 09:41 | Report Abuse

well back to the 80'...company like promet,aokam tin,uniphoenix,gen.soil,comsa.....and many many more..billions of ringgit in investment goes up in smokw... my 2sens.....!

Posted by ks55 > 2019-07-09 10:01 | Report Abuse

Hahha....

PN17 counters good for only 2 sen mah

It may be 0.5 sen before delisted man...........

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 10:11 | Report Abuse

Will be On the bankruptcy lists . better run lol!

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2019-07-09 10:22 | Report Abuse

Phillip,

Not to hold your old age against you, but you missed this sentence.

"Nobody conned them. Those are industries that whose fundamentals were destroyed."

You might want to consider new glasses.

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 10:25 | Report Abuse

Director said d comp insolvent aldy lol ! . Will be like China red chips soon.

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 10:28 | Report Abuse

Cantonese saying Chau Tak Five Ho Sai Kai

Posted by ks55 > 2019-07-09 10:31 | Report Abuse

Look at how WC siphoning cash from Lion Forest, Lion Industries, and Parkson through inter-related transactions.

See how WC novated loan from Grampian to Lion Industries only to write off one year later.

See how WC instituted share buy back of Parkson to tune of 2 billion just try to help maintaining Parkson share price.

See how WC tried to sell PRA to PRGL for 50 cents but was blocked by Hongkong minority shareholders. At one point PRA worth only 0.8 cent and now is about 2 cent.

See how WC making PRA pay rent in advance before the premise is ready for occupancy. Whose building is it? When can it be ready even after so many years delay? PRA is suing, will it succeed?

See how to make creative accounting agreeable to external auditors. Peruse Lion Industries AR and make your own conclusion how much should be written off.

See ................. to many examples to cite. Do your own research lah........

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-09 10:41 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
I totally agreed with Icon8888 statement: “Icon8888 always says I think I am right and I am never wrong”

By your own statement; “One should always exercise thinking like an owner trying to buy over a new business when buying stocks. Try to find out the competitive advantage, try to find out the risks” Do you practices what you preach? Tell me will any businessman buy QL now and pay 11 billion with profit of 216 million and profit growth to 400 – 600 million in year 2029. Do you know what happen to biological asset of egg laying hens when millions of egg laying hens cannot produce egg anymore? Is QL FCF great?

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/staticfile/358668.jsp
As of INSAS why keep harping of minor loss making associate companies when INSAS report very good share of profit less loss of associated companies for many year. And book only value all the associate companies at RM 428,986,000 as of 31/3/2019. Why keep harping on no revenue growth when no revenue is recognized from associate companies and INSAS Credit and leasing revenue is pure profit similarly to the interest from bank deposit and dividend from investment in quoted securities.
So tell me how you value 600+ million of Inari share and how come so many big fund manager, INSTITUTIONS holders invest on Inari share.

Thank you

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-09 10:41 | Report Abuse

>>>>


Choivo Capital If there's one thing i learn from this article, i must add one more step to my own analysis.

5-10 year cashflows.

I do study it, but normally, its just a quick look, i don't list them all out like this.

Thanks KC.
09/07/2019 9:10 AM

>>>>>


I am surprised by your admission. But at least, you are honest and learning.

Earning is not everything. I look for high quality earnings and these are earnings that translate into a lot of cash flow from operations. Then, of course, I look for those companies that have to spend only a fraction of this cash flow from operations to maintain or grow their businesses (low capex requirement, preferably capex/CFO < 25%). This then translates into a lot of FCF. Then I too look for growth. Growth without destroying capital but adding intrinsic value.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 10:53 | Report Abuse

was it fraud , was it strategic errors?

u can't do a post mortem unless u can get into head of Chairman or more access into its books.

Management in this case only 20%, Sendai management got 70%, so it is not the same.

trade? I think it will be like seacera.....rebound by next week , sell and forget .........

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 10:59 | Report Abuse

If these debt spiralling happens over a short period of time (half a year ?), it could be a strategic error

If it happened over an extended period of time (at least 5 years already), if the Boss cannot see the problem coming, he must be blind (or an idiot)

Believe me, no entrepreneurs that can successfully list a company on Bursa is an idiot

The last I check, he is not blind either

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 11:07 | Report Abuse

Many oil and gas companies currently listed on bursa are saddled with debts

I can accept they made "strategic error", because in 2014, oil price collapsed within a short span of few months. They have no time to adjust and react

But not the way debts built up in London Biscuits over such Long period of time (5 years). It has to be fraud

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 11:07 | Report Abuse

Instead of questioning my investment that I have built on since 2009 which has served me well until today with growing dividend, cash flow and wonderful growth, perhaps it is better to concentrate on your INSAS which if you bought in 2014 you will understand better what I mean.

OTB invested in insas. He pulled out. Kyy invested in INSAS. He pulled out. Your way of analysis by talking down other good investments instead of the simple question, why is a company with earnings, net assets of rm2.54 only worth 81 cents to Bursa public "INSTITUTION", is perplexing.

Do you go around talking bad about other competing palm oil companies to raise the reputation of your own?
That is not how investing works. Investing is about predicting future cash flows into the company and putting a value of the company on that.

And to answer your question: it is very simple.

If pt musim mas has 15% net profit margins on its plantations sector. Then it has the management capacity to expand into fertilizer business successfully. Then it expanded into selling frozen seafood and manufactured end user products for it's palm based products. Then it expanded outside of Indonesia into china, Australia and Japan. Then the management has the capacity to successfully transitioned into consumer supply? And if every sector pt musim mas went into became successful and profitable?

Yes I would pay pe50 for that.

Any businessman would.

If I paid 11 billion for 550 million earnings? Pe20 future earnings? All day.


>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by Sslee > Jul 9, 2019 10:41 AM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
I totally agreed with Icon8888 statement: “Icon8888 always says I think I am right and I am never wrong”

By your own statement; “One should always exercise thinking like an owner trying to buy over a new business when buying stocks. Try to find out the competitive advantage, try to find out the risks” Do you practices what you preach? Tell me will any businessman buy QL now and pay 11 billion with profit of 216 million and profit growth to 400 – 600 million in year 2029. Do you know what happen to biological asset of egg laying hens when millions of egg laying hens cannot produce egg anymore? Is QL FCF great?

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 11:09 | Report Abuse

Clear-cut case Con company like China stocks

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 11:12 | Report Abuse

I can see dragon has a more balanced view than that kc from nz.

Posted by sctan > 2019-07-09 11:19 | Report Abuse

If all of you can remember London did pump a lot of money to promote their products in Singapore in past few years. Including sponsoring mediacorp 红星大奖. But you did not see the advertisement anymore.
Maybe the big boss strategy did not work(By advertising heavily plus increase their products line-up. ).

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 11:21 | Report Abuse

business fails. Not all failures due to fraud. One explanation.......They bot the wrong machines and things go down hill.

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 11:23 | Report Abuse

Don't play with fire lol!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 11:35 | Report Abuse

"Even if the Bank interest rates BLR is raised to 20% pa from current 5% pa...insas can even perform better than it is now loh...!!

This is how solid insas is loh...!!
And this is a golden opportunity to accumulate this wonderful counter b4 it should above Rm 1.00 by Feb 2020 loh....!!"

REMEMBER
The above is the solid point of insas over talam & QL loh...!!

OF COURSE TALAM MUCH BETTER THAN QL LOH...!!

Posted by dragonslayer > Jul 9, 2019 11:28 AM | Report Abuse

Aiyo..Tibet Monk...Talam better than Insas..return 100% faster leh...you must believe Calvin kor kor....aiyoyo...kikiki

Posted by tah16600 > 2019-07-09 11:43 | Report Abuse

Better jump ship to Benalec lol!

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 11:44 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 9, 2019 11:42 AM | Report Abuse X

aiyoh....gambling buy some at 16.....to sell and make money next week...........

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 11:45 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 11:54 | Report Abuse

Ok raider u win! Insas 90 cents August 31 and rm1 Feb 2020. Sure thing!

But why not higher? I thought you said NTA is rm2.54?

Then again KC article is a pretty good indication of something that you read but don't ponder.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 12:00 | Report Abuse

OF COURSE U NEED ABOUT 2 TO 3 YRS FOR INSAS TO GO ABOVE RM 2.00 LOH....!!
THIS IS WHAT WE CALL INVEST FOR LONGER TERM MAH...!!

BTW PLS PONDER ABOUT YOUR YINSON , IT IS HYFLUX IN MAKING LOH....!!

HIGH GEARING..AN INCREASING EVERY YEAR WITHOUT BACK UP FROM STRONG CASHFLOW....THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN TO LONDON LOH...!!


Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 9, 2019 11:54 AM | Report Abuse

Ok raider u win! Insas 90 cents August 31 and rm1 Feb 2020. Sure thing!

But why not higher? I thought you said NTA is rm2.54?

Then again KC article is a pretty good indication of something that you read but don't ponder.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 12:24 | Report Abuse

Sudah naik above rm 0.80 woh.!...sikit sikit lama lama jadi bukit mah...!

Posted by dragonslayer > Jul 9, 2019 12:19 PM | Report Abuse

Aiyo...still talk insas kah….so long oredy leh...not moving much also...why sifu talk so long...still belum pecah bumbung..I think is not the company problem...is sifu problem lah...overly confident it will pecah bumbung...but...market dun think so lah….lol....aiyoyo...kikiki

Posted by newbie5354_ > 2019-07-09 12:45 | Report Abuse

Who allow all con? Bursa/SC?

Posted by Lambo > Jul 9, 2019 11:19 AM | Report Abuse
All Bursa stock are con la... where got any stocks not manipulated, goleng to con here... China stock, Malay stock, GLC stocks... all same same la... u no brain meh... talam, vsolar, fintec, focus, trive, k-group all M'sis stock also con la..
wan 2 make money follow them then sell b4 they sell lor... complain no use 1....

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 12:51 | Report Abuse

if a fraud, then no cure.

if mismanagement, then is a job for the turn around specialists.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-09 13:00 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 9, 2019 11:21 AM | Report Abuse
business fails. Not all failures due to fraud. One explanation.......They bot the wrong machines and things go down hill.


This is probably the tenth times I ask you this question below, and with the cash flows and capex as tabulated in table 2 in this article,

Are you really an accountant as you have claimed to be, some more an auditor?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 13:02 | Report Abuse

No problem, I'm pondering how a 4 billion company becomes a 8 billion company. This one really kyy buy or sell no one cares.


>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 9, 2019 12:00 PM | Report Abuse

OF COURSE U NEED ABOUT 2 TO 3 YRS FOR INSAS TO GO ABOVE RM 2.00 LOH....!!
THIS IS WHAT WE CALL INVEST FOR LONGER TERM MAH...!!

BTW PLS PONDER ABOUT YOUR YINSON , IT IS HYFLUX IN MAKING LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 13:04 | Report Abuse

Remember Aokam, London, Megan media....it strike u b4 u knowing loh....!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 9, 2019 1:02 PM | Report Abuse

No problem, I'm pondering how a 4 billion company becomes a 8 billion company. This one really kyy buy or sell no one cares.


>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 9, 2019 12:00 PM | Report Abuse

OF COURSE U NEED ABOUT 2 TO 3 YRS FOR INSAS TO GO ABOVE RM 2.00 LOH....!!
THIS IS WHAT WE CALL INVEST FOR LONGER TERM MAH...!!

BTW PLS PONDER ABOUT YOUR YINSON , IT IS HYFLUX IN MAKING LOH....!

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-09 13:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-09 13:11 | Report Abuse

Posted by tah16600 > Jul 9, 2019 11:43 AM | Report Abuse
Better jump ship to Benalec lol!

If you wish to invest, avoid this lemon too.

Unless if you want to gamble, that is another story. Well, many people made money gambling too. But as a percentage, it is tiny.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-09 13:14 | Report Abuse

History does not repeat but it certainly rhymes.

Parkson story rhymes with Sears (USA).

ttb's attraction to Parkson rhymes with another fund manager's (forgot his name) fascination with Sears too.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-09 13:15 | Report Abuse

U should ask why Raider is not into london leh ??
Ans ; bcos of panlai loh...!!

posted by 3iii > Jul 9, 2019 1:07 PM | Report Abuse

>>>

(US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip

When facing low PE ratios and enticing asset values, always ask the question why? Instead of answering worth buy.


>>>>>

Attention: raider, icon8888 and Calvintan (aka JM)

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-09 13:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 13:33 | Report Abuse

What is panlai?

Is that pandai laosai mix together?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-09 13:34 | Report Abuse

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 9, 2019 7:12 AM | Report Abuse
Good one pjseow, I realized that with Sendai as well, where it's big order came from it's own CEO to build up the jack ship. Huge receivables from middle East but unable to collect causing huge liquidity problems.

This has the same characteristics as the subject of this article, albeit at a much bigger scale. If nothing improves in the very near future, it will go down to PN17 much faster than London Biscuits.

The writing is all on the wall.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:35 | Report Abuse

Only amateurs ask that kind of question


Posted by 3iii > Jul 9, 2019 1:07 PM | Report Abuse

>>>

(US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip

When facing low PE ratios and enticing asset values, always ask the question why? Instead of answering worth buy.


>>>>>



Attention: raider, icon8888 and Calvintan (aka JM)

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 13:35 | Report Abuse

You very lohsoh, maybe you should ponder why hengyuan can become rm35? At least kc chongz has very informative knowledge. You... I really don't know and lazy to find out.

>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 9, 2019 1:04 PM | Report Abuse

Remember Aokam, London, Megan media....it strike u b4 u knowing loh....!!

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:35 | Report Abuse

We have long passed that level

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:37 | Report Abuse

People like 3iii and Philips never learn

They are too full of themselves

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:37 | Report Abuse

I am continuously curious paranoid and open minded

Asking the right questions all the time

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:38 | Report Abuse

Never take things for granted

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-09 13:41 | Report Abuse

At least nowadays I don't get to read "I hope you learn somebody today" at the end of every comment

That is a big improvement already

Phew

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 14:23 | Report Abuse

Wow fake engineer want to start again?

Too bad he never learn how to ask questions.

Always buy in optimism, with one hand on steering wheel, they other frantically pressing buy button for Lotte...

I wonder what happen to the price after he drive so fast and furious to buy...

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-09 14:30 | Report Abuse

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/icon8888/192060.jsp

This is the cost of optimism.

Investor millionaire my ass.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 15:30 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz > Jul 9, 2019 1:00 PM | Report Abuse


Are you really an accountant as you have claimed to be, some more an auditor?
==========

where u are an accountant cum auditor......u know know to read accounts properly, not like you............

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-09 15:35 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
As business owner the first thing we ask is pay-back period. We would not tie down our capital with business that gave a very long pay-back period. Capital needed to put into maximum usage that gave us the fastest return. Hence when we look into buying over the business, we are not going to overpay or overvaluation on management but value only on assets synergy to our current business. We are confident on our team talent, commitment and our resource that we can build up the business faster than any other management can.
We are constantly looking for opportunity to acquire synergies’ assets that are selling for a song as we are confident our management can uses these synergies’ assets to generate maximum return.

Thank you

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-09 15:39 | Report Abuse

kc....when a company is making money but facing negative cashflows, it must mean money is tied up in fixed assets or current assets...its neither good or bad, it depends..............