Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 23:04 | Report Abuse

Understanding the concept of investing in insas based on margin of safety loh....!!

6.MOST PEOPLE LIKE PHILIP, DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT INSAS IS A WELL MANAGE COMPANY CAN SIMPLY SAYS LOH...THE RECORD SHOWS INSAS HAS MAKING GOOD PROFIT FOR PAST 10 YRS AND IT IS CREATING VALUE THATS WHY NTA RM 2.54 PER SHARE, EVEN HIGHER THAN QL LOH..!!

7.For INSAS it is incredibly DIFFICULT to predict future earnings because they themselves do not have a clear direction where they have a big market share, so they try everything to see what sticks.
The real money is in predicting the future. But yes I respect everyone's opinion. Everyone has value ( even raider). But since money is my own, I make my own decisions. INVESTMENT IS NOT ONLY PREDICT THE FUTURE LOH, U LOOK AT YOUR SKILL AND COMPETENCE, THE RESOURCES AND ASSETS U HAVE, U STILL CREATE GREAT VALUE & RETURN MAH...!!

8.INSAS IS NOT SPECULATING THE FUTURE, IT IS LOOKING AT PRESENT VALUE OF INSAS EXCEEDING RM 3.00 V SHARE PRICE RM 0.80, THERE IS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY AND IT IS RUN BY A COMPETENT OWNER LOH...!!


Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 10:50 PM | Report Abuse

sslee....stock broking shares....hot sector meh?

they will raise the dividend to u meh??

so what u betting on?

maybe they give u ahhmoi?

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 10:52 PM | Report Abuse

Sslee > Jul 21, 2019 10:44 PM | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
As on 30th June 2018 INSAS have deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions in Australia of equivalent RM 155,816,000. Board have explained to me that INSAS park the money in Australia for investment opportunity outside Malaysia
===========

sounds like 1 MDB....sure the money still there?

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 10:56 PM | Report Abuse

Sslee > Jul 21, 2019 10:44 PM | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
As on 30th June 2018 INSAS have deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions in Australia of equivalent RM 155,816,000. Board have explained to me that INSAS park the money in Australia for investment opportunity outside Malaysia
===========

sounds like 1 MDB....sure the money still there?

One day, u read in the papers the money went to ahmoi , then how?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 23:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 23:11 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Jul 21, 2019 11:52 AM | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Qqq3 everyone are qualified to talk investment only those pros trader like you who promoted Jaks and Sendai with margin finance and Sailang causing bloodbath everywhere and you profited from it again and again are deceitful, unethical and boy crying wolf so often. Now everyone know what you are up to.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 23:11 | Report Abuse

per B/S March 2019............

cash and deposits $ 660 million
other financial assets $ 245 million
less
client / trust accounts ( $ 100 million)
preference shares due ( $ 130 million)
loans/ borrowings ( $ 320 million )

sslee............if every thing is above board, they can mobilise $ 100 - $ 200 million no sweat.....if every thing is above board and the assets still with them.........

but is that called margin of safety? whose safety since u are not in management?


for fund managers, for portfolio managers, they don't like to invest in such companies with large assets but uncertain future clarity. Do not wish to wake up one morning and found the assets with ahmois., like 1 MDB...........

They prefer to put their money in Philips kind of companies whereby the money is employed in core operations............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 23:13 |

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Posted by i3lurker > 2019-07-21 23:18 | Report Abuse

The RM1.3 billion of liquid market value of associate companies

are actually balanced by the following illiquidity

RM804 million in unquoted subsid
RM228.9 million of pledged FD
RM25 million of pledged cash
RM200 million in pledged financial assets at fair value

===> INSAS is locked in place, unable to move, only can receive dividend income or do share trading (trader guy dies company goes kaput)

the locked assets generate low ROA

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 23:24 |

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Posted by i3lurker > 2019-07-21 23:30 | Report Abuse

interest in Inari has been diluted from 20.2% to 19.1%, why sell the golden goose laying the golden eggs?

and I believe in the last Q (as far as I remember), RM50 million was consumed.

All is not well in paradise?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 23:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 23:37 | Report Abuse

Opportunity coming for insas, it is kambing...just a few more mths loh...!!

Boilermech is not as safe as Insas mah...!!


Btw people like Philip & 3iii will be laughing at u on your boiler mech pick, these people despise smallcap loh...!!

Raider think boilermech is a good stock loh....but not as good as insas loh....!!

Assuming boilermech. keep earnings..how long do u think boilermech can reach insas nta of Rm 2.54 per share, even we assume insas not making money {which is unlikely} just waiting for boilermech to catch up leh ??

Posted by cheoky > Jul 21, 2019 5:54 PM | Report Abuse

practise second level thinking pls.

after heavy discourse on insas by famous stockraider, sslee and kc buffet, insas still lingering there. Rumour of major holders thinking insas is dirt cheap yet market still stagnant the price. no more new value investor will go in. at least this year.

pls discourse more on boilermech, give same dividend, net cash and having a growing and bright future and selling cheaper than insas per unit. plus, i got vest invested. I will help you promote more. Mr Chia together Philip Fisher will work hard to ensure it too. Ms Yeo will love you too.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 23:41 | Report Abuse

The art of taking profit loh....!!

If insas want buy back inari....can get back cheaper today what ??

This prove Insas very savvy like berkshire hathaway loh...!!

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 21, 2019 11:30 PM | Report Abuse

interest in Inari has been diluted from 20.2% to 19.1%, why sell the golden goose laying the golden eggs?

and I believe in the last Q (as far as I remember), RM50 million was consumed.

All is not well in paradise?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 23:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 00:08 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:17 | Report Abuse

qqq u r a real trouble maker loh...!!

Why every time want to pick on OTB, SSLEE and KC for a fight leh ??

These are nice people they are not like u, always want to provoke others for a fight loh...!!

The way u argue also no good with no real points and substances, and always u kena hammered , when they response to u loh...!!

U better stop it loh...!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 22, 2019 12:08 AM | Report Abuse

otb..the more u write...the more every one can see u know nothing about accounts and less about accounting...u cannot even formulate your own observations other than plagiarize here, plagiarize there.........and plagiarizing wrong stuffs too..........

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 00:22 | Report Abuse

y stockraider > Jul 22, 2019 12:17 AM | Report Abuse

qqq u r a real trouble maker loh...!!
============

I have no idea what u talking about but I have clear ideas what I am writing about...........

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-07-22 00:26 | Report Abuse

Raider, u do realize I hold boilermech share by way of QL group right?
Ql green resources 44% owns boilermech is a subsidiary of QL resources....

I also own gkent which is also a smallcap.

I would far rather hold boilermech than INSAS btw as a company which has a clear direction and usage of funds and their market leadership is very clear cut and knowable.

A company which puts their money in Australia and gives out our to Mongolian companies I have no ability to understand why, how and when they will prosper.

Even your ability to see only 60-80 million of profit 5 years from now shows how confident you are in their long term prospects or their cash flow generating capability.

I don't despise smallcaps.

I just choose not to invest in companies with no durable long term competitive advantage.

If INSAS is the biggest brokerage firm in Malaysia with the best reputation and long term clientele different story.

If INSAS instead of selling inari from 44% to 19%, but instead increase to 100% and became direct subsidiary of INSAS very different story.

If INSAS property development was started 10 years ago, hohup developed crown imago Sabah 10 years ago instead of only now when property glut occur, very different story.

If INSAS instead of investing in dgsb, decided to put their money into timecom 5 years ago, very different story.

But raider still don't understand what is meant by understanding future cash flow 5 years from now. Where INSAS growth will be.

>>>>>>>>



stockraider Opportunity coming for insas, it is kambing...just a few more mths loh...!!

Boilermech is not as safe as Insas mah...!!


Btw people like Philip & 3iii will be laughing at u on your boiler mech pick, these people despise smallcap loh...!!

Raider think boilermech is a good stock loh....but not as good as insas loh....!!

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 00:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 00:32 | Report Abuse

as for Insas...........for fund managers, for portfolio managers, they don't like to invest in such companies with large assets but uncertain future clarity. Do not wish to wake up one morning and found the assets with ahmois., like 1 MDB...........

They prefer to put their money in Philips kind of companies whereby the money is employed in core operations............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 01:01 | Report Abuse

as for Insas...........for fund managers, for portfolio managers, they don't like to invest in such companies with large assets but uncertain future clarity. Do not wish to wake up one morning and found the assets with ahmois., like 1 MDB...........

They prefer to put their money in Philips kind of companies whereby the money is employed in core operations............

ideally, companies have dividend policies and excess cash distributed to shareholders. Then people can select their investments based on the core operations...

so, what is the investment thesis for Insas? Because they have a lot of extra cash? sure the cash still there or not?

according to SSLee, about $ 100 million is in Australian banks.........sure still with them or not? or another 1 MDB?


I think fund managers prefers to see growth and not having to worry whether the cash still there or not.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 04:27 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 04:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-22 07:47 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
Sorry to see so many comments till late night and early morning. Please take care of your sleep.

Financial end 30th June 2018 annual report:
A. Deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions consist of the following:-
- fixed deposits 327,850,000
- short term deposits 244,853,000
Deposits placed with licensed banks and financial institutions amounting to RM228,902,000 (2017:RM229,885,000) of the Group are pledged to licensed banks and financial institutions as security for banking and credit facilities granted to the Group.
Deposits placed with a licensed bank amounting to RM1,193,000 (2017: RM1,162,000) of the Company is pledged as security for credit facilities granted to the Company.

Included in the cash and bank balances of the Group are:-
(a) an amount of RM486,000 (2017: RM477,000) maintained pursuant to Section 7A of the Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act, 1966 and are restricted from use in other operations. The withdrawal of funds from the housing development account is restricted to cost incurred in respect of the development project.
(b) an amount of RM25,112,000 (2017: RM40,363,000) are pledged to certain licensed banks and financial institutions for banking facilities granted to the Group.

B. ASSOCIATE COMPANIES (RM)
Quoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 164,559,000
Unquoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 7,560,000
Unquoted shares outside Malaysia, at cost 27,158,000
Group’s share of post acquisition:
- profits less losses 94,764,000
- reserves 67,748,000
Less:-Accumulated impairment loss
- unquoted shares (4,161,000)
Total: 357,628,000
Represented by:-
Share of net assets 277,652,000
Goodwill on acquisition 79,976,000
Market value of quoted shares in Malaysia: 1,376,569,000
Note: On 29th June 2018: Market price Inari: RM2.26. HoHup: RM0.48
On 28th June 2019: Market price Inari: RM 1.60. HoHup: RM 0.525

C. Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss RM 236,562,000
Quoted securities, at market value
- in Malaysia 57,744,00. Gross dividend received RM 2,750,000
- outside Malaysia 178,818,000. Gross dividend received RM 6,797,000
The Group’s financial assets at fair value through profit or loss amounting to RM200,055,000 (2017: RM248,709,000) are pledged to certain licensed banks and financial institutions for banking facilities granted to the Group.
Quoted securities outside Malaysia: USA: RM 44,468,000. Singapore: RM 93,362,000. EU: RM 1,835,000. UK: RM 4,784,000. Australia: RM 6,045,000. HK: RM 23,373,000. Others: RM 4,951,000

D. Trade receivables: 376,481,000
- Of which Aggregate amount of outstanding loans as at 30 June 2018 by Insas Credit & Leasing Sdn Bhd: RM 208,135,000

9 months end 31th March 2019: After-tax-profit RM 64,192,000. Q4? (Inari positive, M&A positive, ICL positive, Investment finger crossed)
No matter how I present the facts and figures many will still twists and turn the facts and figures to suit their confirmation bias. But fortunately many big fund and institutional holders are investors of Inari. Hence I take it as holding 1 Insas is equal to indirectly holding 0.91 Inari share, is this alone good enough for me buying into Insas? Will everyone happy now?

Thank you
P/S: Bank Deposit in Australia is mean for a business investment but that business investment did not materialized thus remain as bank deposit because if remitted back to Malaysia it will take a lot of paper works (Central Bank) to remit out to invest outside Malaysia again (miss opportunity).

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-22 09:40 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 10:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-22 10:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 10:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 10:50 | Report Abuse

cannot be jealous as I have no desire to be anybody adviser except my own adviser re stock market.............but professional opinion got..........

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 10:53 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 10:59 | Report Abuse

happiness............happiness is like this biker.............can do his own thing.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4hzfPujpg

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 11:05 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-22 11:11 | Report Abuse

X P

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-22 11:11 | Report Abuse

cheeky

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 11:36 | Report Abuse

happiness............happiness is like this biker.............can do his own thing.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4hzfPujpg


other people will say, don't cycle, cycling so dangerous.............

happiness is able to do own thing , whatever other people say. Happiness comes from confidence.....confident of one self, able to think independently


and of course, the happiest people in the world are the cyclist of Amsterdam......compared them with the KL drivers cursing in their cars..............

ps.......I got good memories of me cycling to school when young....alas, nowadays no body cycles to school.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-22 12:30 | Report Abuse

Dear i3lurker,
Well-said, give you a thumb up. That’s what friends are for. I had made peace with qqq3 and myself knowing that qqq3 can no longer had the ability to influence i3investor readers to margin finance and Sailang like what happen in JAKS and SENDAI he previously did and profited again and again from it at other people losses.

I am actually has my sympathy for him that he lost his job 20 year ago and never able to get a new job, this is terrible. I am glad to know that his two children and wife doing well. I wish him success in his stock trading.

I already stop name-calling on him but cannot resist myself to call him fake accountant because his understanding of accounting is so rusty despite I pointing out his mistake, “Dealer’s representatives’ deposits and clients’ trust monies received of RM81,667,000 are excluded from deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions and cash and bank balances of the Group in accordance with Financial Reporting Standards Implementation Committee Consensus 18: Monies Held in Trust by Participating Organisations of Bursa Malaysia Securities Berhad”

Anyhow I would like to politely ask OTB to not using my very rude and cruel name-calling on qqq3 (maybe fake accountant is still Ok). Let bygones be bygones, no point to visit our past animosity and trapped ourselves in the past.
Wishing all great success in whatever we are pursuing.

Thank you
P/S: qqq3 go get a bicycle and do cycling, that will sure make you happy.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:25 | Report Abuse

Penta - a growth stock.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:27 | Report Abuse

Insas is a serial acquirer. However, its allocation of capital to acquire numerous small companies destroy value, except for Inari.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:36 | Report Abuse

It is not a surprise it is trading below its book value.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:38 | Report Abuse

The benefit of Inari to Insas for now are 2 folds: Its dividends and the capital gains when Insas sells some of Inari’s shares.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:40 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:43 | Report Abuse

Many of the companies in Insas are running losses and poor performers, excluding Inari.

Some companies require huge recurring capex and many of the assets of Insas subsidiaries are non performing (rental yields) or gruesome business (car rental business).

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-22 13:52 | Report Abuse

zzzz

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-22 13:54 | Report Abuse

..to suck capital...

Posted by 3iii_viltaneng > 2019-07-22 23:35 | Report Abuse

still remembering how calvintneng promoted

MULPHA 45 sen, (now RM 2)
BJCORP 60 sen, (now 25 sen)
PERISAI 50 sen,, (now delisted)

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 01:36 | Report Abuse

Investment in insas call for a very successful investment tech, that very alien to Philip & 3iii loh....!!

AS RAIDER SAYS THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO SKIN A CAT LOH...!!

INSAS IS NOT SPECULATING THE FUTURE, IT IS LOOKING AT PRESENT VALUE OF INSAS EXCEEDING RM 3.00 V SHARE PRICE RM 0.80, THERE IS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY AND IT IS RUN BY A COMPETENT OWNER LOH...!!

ON THE OTHERHAND IF U INVEST IN NESTLE & Ql U NEED SPECULATE THAT FUTURE GROWTH OF YOUR STOCK WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH UP WITH THE YOUR PRESENT OVERVALUE STOCK PRICE OF MORE THAN PE 50X LOH...!!

THE FALLACIES OF THIS APPROACH IS THE COMPANY CAN GROW & GROW, OVER MANY YEARS LEH, WHAT HAPPEN SALES & PROFIT FALTER ??

WHERE IS YOUR MARGIN OF SAFETY LEH ?? FOR INSAS, ON OTHER HAND, U CAN SEE IT ALREADY HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY, WHEN U BUY THE SHARE MAH...!!

(S=QR) Philip Raider, you realize the more you as info about INSAS, the worse the company sounds right? You are trying too hard to convince and win every argument.

1. You concept here is basically saying that INSAS management care more about themselves than the shareholders of the company. This might be a valid reason why no one wants to buy INSAS shares. When shareholders can see that the company has money ( no idea why in Australia) but chooses to give poor earnings for every dollar of RETAINED earnings, they should give it back to the shareholders. Hoarding cash, investing in cash burning startups, not giving returns to shareholders via dividends and share buybacks is a quick method to destroy confidence in the company.

I totally agree.

2. If 5 years from now, INSAS is only making 60-80 million, from a net asset economic business value of 1.7 billion, on such a risky business model as lending, stockbroker, private equity, startups then I think I have better things in life to do.

Raider has no ability to understand risk versus returns.

That is why he thinks INSAS is better than Berkshire.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 01:58 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by CaptainVeryKeng > 2019-07-23 11:00 | Report Abuse

famous liar .....Ong Tak Boleh (OTB)

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-23 13:28 | Report Abuse

>>>>>

http://www.investlah.com/forum/index.php/topic,22986.msg453972.html#msg453972


Offline stockraider
Marquess
********
Posts: 16,460
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Re: STUPID INSAS....
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »
Quote
Quote from: stockraider on June 16, 2011, 04:49:37 PM
U sifu teach u accumulate high price meh...!?
U only buy when....price is low mah...!

That also buy little bit....slowly buy mah....!

Lagipun ESSO jatuh....takut apa takut ?
Raider......sudah....bagi....mind power focus training....ESSO Rm 10.00....sure mah....!

Itu nebie kat...! Tak guna punya...! Ini takut...! Itu takut...! Macam baby...!

U better don friend....itu nebies kat so much...! Bad influence loh....! Just use your mind power focus ESSO.......pasti 1 day Rm 10.00 mah...!

----

U no worry one lah...!
Insas at Rm 0.515....sure $$$$$$$$$$$$$.....!
These people who laugh at u....don know....the main purpose of investment is not to lose monies...!
They are wrongloh....they want to make alot of $$$$$ in investment....lead them to gambling mah...!

Buah hati...INSAS got alot of margin of safety loh...!


>>>>>


Raider has been trapped in Insas for a very long time.

OTOH look at how Nestle, DLady, etc have delivered over the same period.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-23 13:37 | Report Abuse

http://www.investlah.com/forum/index.php/topic,25468.0.html

Has Insas been a great stock for this pussy cat?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-08-02 16:34 |

Post removed.Why?