Posted by cheoky > 2019-07-22 17:45 | Report Abuse

so long winded.. support u buy a bit insas.

Posted by Ayoyo > 2019-07-22 18:08 | Report Abuse

You may not have to wait too long... Will be in play soon.. How far? Dunno...

Posted by jellyfish > 2019-07-22 18:17 | Report Abuse

i notice strong buying in a bad market today

Posted by Ricky Yeo > 2019-07-22 18:26 | Report Abuse

As always, the probability of any catalyst that can unlock this value needs to taken into account. Once those probabilities are taken into account, things might look differently.

Investment lesson: I bought APM and Favco 3-4 years ago due to deep value situation - cash in balance sheet are 40-50% of market cap (if I'm not wrong). Not exactly net-net situation, but deep value nonetheless. Fast forward to present day, I haven't made any capital gain on both so far. Dividend yes. Does it remain attractive? Yes. But then, there is a huge opportunity cost as well.

Before you buy, you better prepare that things are going to stay way longer than you thought. And this isn't something you can say oh I'll hold it for 10 years.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-22 18:50 | Report Abuse

be my guest if you bet a leopard will change its spot


Blog: INSAS: My response to Philip comment

Jul 22, 2019 4:54 PM | Report Abuse

leopard will change its spot or not? to think that Insas will soon change its spot and be a loved and respected stock in Bursa is like thinking leopard will, hopefully change its spot...........HOPE.

mean while, hope the money in Australia still there no Jho Low.........

Bursa history.........for family companies below $ 1 billion in market cap.....family holds about 30%, company said to have obscene amounts of cash.................how often in Bursa, major shareholders not tempted to treat every thing as family assets?

Posted by cheoky > 2019-07-22 19:18 | Report Abuse

50% boilermech 50%insas. You will be sing song by stockraider. Philip Fisher will said you smart. U become WB cum Fisher.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-22 19:37 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha qqq3,
If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup.
If you paint leopard black, it becomes the Black Panther. “yibambe amandala”
Seriously tell me what happen 20 year ago. Did your boss abscond with company money and you become his sacrifice lamb. You can let this out now; it will make you more at peace and at ease with yourself and others.

Thank you
P/S: Please advice, today buying queue bjland at 0.17 cents also done. Is bjland an opportunity to make quick profit or another trapped?

Posted by popo92 > 2019-07-22 21:04 | Report Abuse

KC is very good in quantitative analysis as usual....

Posted by paco2688 > 2019-07-22 22:08 | Report Abuse

No offend, It is not an active share... Hence hardly any price movement..

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-22 22:45 | Report Abuse

Don't waste your time, focus on earning growth

Buy stocks that next year earning is expected to be higher than this year

Even though KYY himself has abandoned this principle, I am keeping the flame alive

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-07-22 23:01 | Report Abuse

Yes I think I will take kcchongz very wise advise. If you have said enough about INSAS, and still the belief is the same, then there is no use explaining the thought process further. If it works it works.

Peace, and sayonara.

Again, the job to do is to wait and observe. Feb 2020, when the warrants expire is when the big trigger will occur. Hopefully the share price will go up up and away, so everybody in i3 will be happy and vindicated.

Qué sera, sera.

Posted by i3lurker > 2019-07-22 23:14 | Report Abuse

if mgmt can opt to sell down Inari from 40% down to 19.2% as the lesser of other evils; on the balance of probability, this option is still attractive.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 01:38 | Report Abuse

Investment in insas call for a very successful investment tech, that very alien to Philip & 3iii loh....!!

AS RAIDER SAYS THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO SKIN A CAT LOH...!!

INSAS IS NOT SPECULATING THE FUTURE, IT IS LOOKING AT PRESENT VALUE OF INSAS EXCEEDING RM 3.00 V SHARE PRICE RM 0.80, THERE IS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY AND IT IS RUN BY A COMPETENT OWNER LOH...!!

ON THE OTHERHAND IF U INVEST IN NESTLE & Ql U NEED SPECULATE THAT FUTURE GROWTH OF YOUR STOCK WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH UP WITH THE YOUR PRESENT OVERVALUE STOCK PRICE OF MORE THAN PE 50X LOH...!!

THE FALLACIES OF THIS APPROACH IS THE COMPANY CAN GROW & GROW, OVER MANY YEARS LEH, WHAT HAPPEN SALES & PROFIT FALTER ??

WHERE IS YOUR MARGIN OF SAFETY LEH ?? FOR INSAS, ON OTHER HAND, U CAN SEE IT ALREADY HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY, WHEN U BUY THE SHARE MAH...!!

(S=QR) Philip Raider, you realize the more you as info about INSAS, the worse the company sounds right? You are trying too hard to convince and win every argument.

1. You concept here is basically saying that INSAS management care more about themselves than the shareholders of the company. This might be a valid reason why no one wants to buy INSAS shares. When shareholders can see that the company has money ( no idea why in Australia) but chooses to give poor earnings for every dollar of RETAINED earnings, they should give it back to the shareholders. Hoarding cash, investing in cash burning startups, not giving returns to shareholders via dividends and share buybacks is a quick method to destroy confidence in the company.

I totally agree.

2. If 5 years from now, INSAS is only making 60-80 million, from a net asset economic business value of 1.7 billion, on such a risky business model as lending, stockbroker, private equity, startups then I think I have better things in life to do.

Raider has no ability to understand risk versus returns.

That is why he thinks INSAS is better than Berkshire.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 01:58 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-23 05:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 22, 2019 11:11 PM | Report Abuse
the warrants will just expire with no sound
even though the locked RM804 million unquoted subsid consumes RM50 million per Q, there is still 19.2% of Inari to further sell down
selling down Inari is still the lesser of other evils and the best option for management at the current moment.

1) warrants
The exercise price of warrants is RM1.00. If Insas share price is above RM1.00, warrants will be exercised. Major warrant holders probably has substantial amount of preference shares to exercise some of the warrants. So it depends on the share price of Insas on expiry date. There is still about 8 months to go. So, it is not a sure thing.

2) If Insas has RM804m of "ünquoted shares", which will work out to RM1.21 per share, that is very substantial and Insas may not be that undervalued after all, as unquoted share is not liquid and has no market value and hence may not get what is in the book, and sometimes can be way off. But how do you get the figure?

The actual figure is RM48m, or 7 sen per share, which does not make much difference to the undervaluation even if you put a zero value to them.

By the way, Inari is an associated company and its shares are quoted in Bursa.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-23 09:36 | Report Abuse

Dear i3lurker,
I think your last M&A must be very long time ago. You are a bit rusty now but still better than qqq3 in accounting.
The associate companies as of financial end 30th June 2019 as below:
B. ASSOCIATE COMPANIES (RM)
Quoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 164,559,000
Unquoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 7,560,000
Unquoted shares outside Malaysia, at cost 27,158,000
Group’s share of post acquisition:
- profits less losses 94,764,000
- reserves 67,748,000
Less:-Accumulated impairment loss
- unquoted shares (4,161,000)
Total: 357,628,000
Represented by:-
Share of net assets 277,652,000
Goodwill on acquisition 79,976,000
Market value of quoted shares in Malaysia: 1,376,569,000
Note: On 29th June 2018: Market price Inari: RM2.26. HoHup: RM0.48
On 28th June 2019: Market price Inari: RM 1.60. HoHup: RM 0.525

Cash flows from investing activities
Acquisition of shares in associate companies: RM (20,930,00) period end 30th Sept 2018
Acquisition of shares in associate companies: RM (35,230,00) period end 31th Dec 2018
Acquisition of shares in associate companies: RM (41,174,00) period end 31th March 2019
On 17 August 2018, ITB acquired an additional 110,000,000 ordinary shares in Diversified Gateway Solutions Berhad (“DGSB”) via direct business transaction from Omesti Holdings
Berhad for a total cash consideration of RM 6,930,000.
Do you know: As of 30th June 2018. Inari report
INSAS PLAZA SDN BHD 15,746,625 WARRANTS B 2015/2020
28th June 2018 Dato’ Sri Thong indirect interest in Inari: 609,012,026
9th Jan 2019 Dato’ Sri Thong indirect interest in Inari: 611,212,026

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 22, 2019 11:11 PM | Report Abuse
the warrants will just expire with no sound
even though the locked RM804 million unquoted subsid consumes RM50 million per Q, there is still 19.2% of Inari to further sell down selling down Inari is still the lesser of other evils and the best option for management at the current moment.
So what you actually mean by above?

Dear all,
When David use selective data to support his future projected earning you accused him of Pump and Dump. When we tell you we do not know what will be the future earning but our investment thesis is base on present valuation on facts and figures, all hell broke loose with every types of baseless accusation.
Is 9 months end 31th March 2019: After-tax-profit RM 64,192,000 not good enough?
Hadn’t Inari, M&A and ICL contribute positive earning for Insas for the past and will do so in the future.

I am trying to fight for my vested interest and the interest of minority shareholders by engaging with the board. Please suggest to me what I can bring to the next AGM for a win-win proposal. Please has a heart for those long suffered minority shareholders, if you can’t offer any useful suggestion at least you can do is like deMusangking offer a prayer for us.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:35 | Report Abuse

What a rubbish point this lurker loh....!!

Insas Inari shareholding has fallen below 20%, but from more than 44% loh...!!

This mean insas has taken a very good profit on inari investment loh....!! Already enough mah...!!

Should Insas sell further leh ??

No loh...!! At the moment Inari as an Associate contribute at least 33% profit to insas mah, just imagine after sold insas & will get Rm 600m sales proceed, what they are going to do with this monies leh ??....Of course unless the new buyer willing to pay Rm 3.50 per share, then it is a different story loh...!!

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 23, 2019 9:59 AM | Report Abuse

sslee

please dun put yourself in your shoes, only think of yourself and other minority shareholders

put yourself into management shoes, what is in the best interest of management?
what will management do? The best interest of management is to sell down Inari. They did it already from 40% down to 19.2%. is there any reason why they will not sell more?

sslee, you can only win if the other party wins first. Real life win win.

if you insist on winning first then only the other party wins, you may not win at all. This is a theoretical win win.

Both win together? why not let the party win first?

if you want suggestions, you can ask management at AGM whether they will continue selling down Inari.

:)

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:39 | Report Abuse

What KC says are valid downside of insas loh...!!

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!


KC COMMENT,
Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:40 | Report Abuse

That is true, but on the otherhand, u cannot buy much substantial of insas without raising up the share price of insas up like a rocket loh.....!!

U need to ask whether there is catalyst for demand for INSAS....and raider see YES loud & clear the date is in FEB 2020 a few months from now b4 big action will start loh...!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 4:07 PM | Report Abuse

It does not have to be 10 times

That is not my point

My point is that when come to controlling stake, don't take market value as the realisable value

In most cases, controlling stake carries a premium. But in this case, it becomes a liability as unlike a portfolio stake, you can't realise it's value by unloading in market


Posted by Sslee > Jul 20, 2019 3:44 PM | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Mr. Market is like Donald Trump keep changing his mind. So I am more interest to know your thought process why you give Inari PE of 10. I am trying to learn.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:40 | Report Abuse

Even If i take icon arguement is correct & he wins on inari....again don forget Insas has a net cash of Rm 550 million or Rm 0.80 per share beside inari investment, don tell me the net cash here equivalent to the whole mkt capitalization of insas Rm 560m has no value ??

Obvious logic INSAS is undervalue mah....!!

Simple arithmetic primary fellow understand loh...!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 2:38 PM | Report Abuse

If the 20% inari controlling stake is put up for sale at current price, will there be a buyer ?

If the answer is yes, insas is indeed undervalued

If the answer is no, maybe it is not so undervalued after all

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:41 | Report Abuse

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 4:31 PM | Report Abuse X

INVESTORS OF INSAS SHOULD BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT OF INSAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE GOOD MONIES LOH....!!

THE ONLY ISSUE THEY SHOULD FEAR, IS HOW LONG I NEED TO WAIT ONLY MAH...!!

THIS IS BCOS, THE HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY THE TRUE VALUE & QUALITY ASSETS IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:42 | Report Abuse

Already proven that Insas hathaway is even better than berkshire hathaway loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 5:02 PM | Report Abuse X

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY (B) Balance Sheet 31.3.2019
Total Assets 738,724 m
Total Equity 368,877 m V MKT CAP 527,260M.
THERE IS NO MARGIN OF SAFETY FOR BERKSHIRE BASED ON BOOK VALUE.

INSAS HATHAWAY (B) Balance Sheet 31.3.2019
Total Assets 2,357 m
Total Equity 1,724 m REMEMBER MKT CAP ONLY RM 562M.

INSAS HAS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY OR UNDERVALUATION OF RM 1162M COMPARE TO BERKSHIRE TRADING AT A PREMIUM LOH....!!

C) BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY ROA & ROE
ROA = 23,398 / 738,724 = 3.17%
ROE = 23,398 / 368,877 = 6.34%

C) INSAS HATHAWAY ROA & ROE
ROA = 120.09 / 2,357 = 5.09%
ROE = 120.09 / 1,724 = 6.96%

INSAS ROE AND ROA IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN BERKSHIRE MEANING INSAS PERFORMANCE IS AS GOOD AS BERKSHIRE IF NOT BETTER LOH...!!

(D) BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY Valuation
P/E = 527,260 / 23,398 = 22.5x
P/BV = 527,260 / 368,877 = 1.43

FCF yield = 21,739.6 / 527,260 = 4.12%

(D) INSAS HATHAWAY Valuation
P/E = 561.6 / 120.09 = 4.7x
P/BV = 561.6 / 1,724 = 0.3255

FCF yield = 24.6 / 561.60 = 4.38%

VALUATION WISE INSAS BEAT BERKSHIRE ON BETTER PE, LOWER PRICE TO BV AND HIGHER FREECASH FLOW YIELD.


FINAL CONCLUSION; INSAS HAS A MORE SUPERIOR VALUATION THAN BERKSHIRE AND MUCH HIGHER MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...!!

THUS WE CAN SAY INSAS IS AS GOOD AS BERKSHIRE LOH...!!

Posted by popo92 > Jul 20, 2019 5:07 PM | Report Abuse

Investor would not give inari and insas same PE. Businesss model isn’t the same. What I don’t like about Insas is their business model to buy and hold market fund assets. Is it creating value periodically by investing stock market? Are they making more right decision other than inari? Do they have More than enough funds to acquire more investment if they given dividends? Can they create value organically?
Even investments insas is holding is worth more... there’s no cash flow created.... unless management is very good in Investing, then it might be a mini Berkshire... me myself is not convincing...

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 5:12 PM | Report Abuse

insas business is selling inari over the long time.....it is same like selling nasi lemak at the road side....nothing exciting....no surprise...

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:42 | Report Abuse

Very well said, thats why my insas & charles MNRB beat Philip overvalue QL Pe 50x todate loh...!!

U cannot go far wrong with huge margin of safety investment mah..!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 21, 2019 8:24 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 21, 2019 8:00 AM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz
JCBNEXT?
is the company fully valued? or richly valued?
if you invest in any fully valued company, your growth factor will be economic growth itself.
Fully valued companies tend to nose dive in price during recessions and fluctuate with market sentiment.
Is JCBNEXT at an all time low to warrant a writeup?
Only you can answer these questions.

From your questions, you seem to be in the same page as me in this respect. I believe that is one of the good ways in investing; what is its price, what is its value. A great company which is worth say RM10 won't be a great investment if it is sold at RM20. A mediocre company which is worth RM1.00 may be a great investment if it is sold at 28 sen.

That is what we can control in our investing, to find out what is the value of the company and compare with its price. Other things such as if a controlling stake would be sold at a premium or a discount, we won't know, although we know it is normally sold at a premium.

But the introduction of this JOBNEXT was by someone else giving a comment in this thread, not from me. He has given a link to it in his comment. I only concur with him.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:43 | Report Abuse

INVESTING IN INSAS IS DEALING WITH UNCERTAINTY IN A VERY SMART WAY LOH.....!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 11:41 AM | Report Abuse

KC and OTB cannot deal with uncertainties and cannot deal with disagreements............To them, only people who prays at their feet, who eats out of their hand are qualified to talk about stock market.

I say two fingers to you both....................

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:44 | Report Abuse

Correctloh...it is whether he is comfortable with 32.9% holding on insas and still control the company or whether he prefer with more than 50% holding and seal his control on the jewel insas loh...!!

It is highly tempting for him to for go for option 2, as Insas has NTA Rm 2.54 per share (this exclude its hidden reserve} there is huge value can be derived from insas loh...!!

In addition insas, has net cash of Rm 550m, a big chunked of the GO outlay can be finance by these internal fund too loh...!!

If i m Thong, i will start the action now & slowly accumulate my position on insas at Rm 0.795 under nominee and later can still launched a GO at Rm 1.00, after exercising THE warrant at Rm 1.00, the objective is to take his holding at least above 50% mah..!

Posted by Sslee > Jul 19, 2019 11:10 PM | Report Abuse

Dear dragonslayer,
The prize catch of INSAS is its 600million+ Inari share and its assets mostly made up of cash and cash equivalent, and other financial assets which are marked-to-market and can be readily converted to equivalent cash value.
It depends on the market price of Inari when independent advisor make valuation of INSAS. Imagine if the valuation come up to be almost RM4, Dato’ Sri Thong has to either increase the offer price or risk MGO fail and he is not allowed to make another MGO within next 1 year period. During this 1 year period Dato’ Sri Thong is defense-less against you, me or any big shark come in and make a hostile take-over of INSAS

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:45 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:45 | Report Abuse

The investment potential in insas is in fact more feasible & better compare to empty land in bandar utama {which i describe} bcos in insas case the company is making monies every yr, paying reasonable dividend and i do not need to pay quit rent & assessment every yr loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:46 | Report Abuse

Theoretically someone can borrow RM530m from banks to buy up all the shares in the open market at 80 sen, and after gaining control of the company, sell off Inari, Ho Hup and other shares, the and money market funds, strip off the cash in banks, payoff company loan of RM411m and RM130m to holders of Preference shares, and pay the bank loans of RM530m borrowed for this purpose, pocket RM870m cash left over, and still own the business for free.

This arbitrage opportunity as shown in Table 2 in the Appendix is used as a theoretical illustration purpose only. In practice, it is easier said than done though as there are problems in a hostile takeover attempt. At present, the major shareholders control just short of 33% of the outstanding shares of Insas. With another close to 100m warrants and a large portion of Preference shares which can be used as conversion price for the warrants, the major shareholders have a firm grip of the company. However, it would be interesting if the warrants are left to expire worthless in early 2020. If this hostile takeover can be done later by someone with deep pocket, huge reward is awaiting. Even if there is a takeover war going on, share price would also rise and benefit the existing minority shareholders.


Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.


Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:24 PM | Report Abuse X

What KC says are valid downside of insas loh...!!

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:47 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:48 | Report Abuse

THAT IS WHAT COMMON PEOPLE SEE INSAS LOH....!!

PROS LIKE SSLEE & RAIDER SEE VERY DIFFERENTLY & VERY CONFIDENT OPPORTUNITY COMING MAH.....!!

INVEST IN INSAS AND NOT TRADE INSAS LOH....!!

ABOVE RM 1.00 SHOULD BE POSSIBLE LOH....!!

Posted by beso > Jul 16, 2019 11:09 PM | Report Abuse

over the last 10 years, Insas only has traded above RM1 for only a few months in 2014 and a brief period in 2017，stock price has spoken loud & clear，it's a value trap neither a wise investment nor deep value investment，you won't get even half of its nta，market don't price it low for no reason.
those empty handed better don't get burn by this value trap，those stuck in high price may have to consider sell when rebound hit resistance to cut & move on.
how many stocks has gone up over five folds in bursamalaysia over the last ten years, why buy insas，in stock markets hold on with the right & must act fast to cut the wrong.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:48 | Report Abuse

Very simple loh...if u compare insas v jaks loh...!!

1. Insas has alot of cash n jaks has none.
2. Insas has net no borrowing whereas jaks has alot of borrowing.
3. Insas can sit & shake legs n jaks struggle & court action loh...!
4. Insas business very stable make monies v jaks powerplant still under development, some more minority position has to beg the master major shareholder for handout loh....!!
5. Insas Nta more cantik than jaks.
6. Insass Div more cantik than jaks
7. Insas profit more cantik than jaks.

SEE EVERYTHING INSAS MORE CANTIK THAN JAKS MAH...!!

BUT SHARE PRICE INSAS MORE CHEAPER LOH....!!

THAT MEANS INSAS BEST BUY COMPARE TO JAKS LOH..!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:49 | Report Abuse

Kc,

Raider says kc very good research by kc...never in my mind...insas share price performance has been consider reasonable good, despite so much criticism from i3 readers loh...!!
Raider has overlooked n did not cover this part bcos i m a margin of safety investor .

Benjamin Graham never advice us to avoid value trap, bcos it is a very lucrative investment preposition mah, thus he recommend diversifications portfolio and willing to invest a longer term of 3 to 5 yrs loh...!!

There is nothing wrong with value trap, if u chose safety as the 1st investment criteria loh...!!


Posted by 3iii > Jul 18, 2019 6:57 AM | Report Abuse

Understanding Value Traps

If you believe a stock has a true ("intrinsic") value, you will try to buy it below that level (when it's "cheap"). So why sell if it gets even cheaper.

A stock that stays at a large discount to intrinsic value is a "value trap". It's an important issue for value investors and there are few methods to avoid value traps.

One way to avoid a value trap with a cheap stock (like Benjamin Graham liked) is to buy them with catalysts, i.e. new management or new plans to unlock that value through buybacks, dividends, or sale/merger.

The best way to avoid a value trap is to buy a growing business that increases value over time.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:50 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Jul 15, 2019 1:59 PM | Report Abuse

Dear all,
It is fascinating that when we value our net worth we value our properties(s) at market value and ignoring the little rental it generates, our stocks at marked- to-market value again ignoring the little dividend it generates and our bank balance at more than it face value as we like to say “cash is king” and we are just waiting for market to crash and be spoiled for choice to pick up the beaten down stocks. However, when it comes to investing in stocks, most investors place greater emphasis on earnings of company and often, ignoring the company's balance sheet. This is why faddish companies occasionally rise to incredible market valuations despite a relative absence of hard assets, current assets, cash and bank balance but plenty of revenue, receivable and bank borrowing. So my question why asset-rich companies occasionally trade well below replacement value? Is Mr. Market always right and can do no wrong?
Equally why Mr. Market likes to rewards CEO of dubious characters (ALP) that over promises/tall tales (MOU, Vision 202X to pump the share price) but under delivered (many excuses with smoke screen, countersuit and etc) and punished a honest, hardworking and maybe a bit conservative and prudent CEO who had accumulated so much wealth into the company balance sheet? So are we been fair to INSAS and for that matter Dato’ Sri Thong for building up and loaded into INSAS so much wealth?

Let’s examines INSAS:
Number of Share: 663,006,342 (EXCLUDING 30,327,291 TREASURY SHARE)
Dato’ Sri Thong and his brother Dato Thong direct and deemed interest: 32.98%
Number of Warrant B: 265,202,536 (Exercise price: RM 1.00. Expiry date: 25 FEB 2020)
Dato’ Sri Thong direct and deemed interest: 31.45%
Number of RPS: 132,610,268 (Expiry date: 25 FEB 2020)
Dato’ Sri Thong direct and deemed interest: 41.80%

https://klse.i3investor.com/insider/director/0166/24-Apr-2019/140031_8...
INSAS still hold 609,212,026 Inari share or 19.19%

Insas was a major shareholder of Inari way before its listing in July 2011 which it held more than 40% share then. After listing, and some corporate exercises, and selling of some shares, Insas still own 19.19% of Inari shares and equity account as associate companies (by virtue of having board representation in Inari). At the present price of Inari of RM1.64 as on 15th July 2019 lunch time, the market value of Inari is worth almost RM 1 billion to Insas or about RM1.51 per share of Insas. This alone is already more than 85% above the market price of Insas of 80 sen. That also means Insas is trading at 53% below the value of Inari’s shares it holds, alone! Insas, besides Inari and other associate companies, it has heaps of cash and cash equivalent and huge amount of marked-to-market financial assets and a few other businesses.
Balance sheet: Total current assets 1,531,914,000 against Total liabilities 632,992,000 and healthy total non-current assets 825,432,000.

So my question: Mr. Market what mental models or human behaviors at play in buying Inari at RM1.64 when you can use the same capital to buy 2 Insas share at 80 cents and hold indirectly 1.84 Inari share and all the cash and cash equivalent and all the other Insas's associate companies and business?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:51 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Jul 10, 2019 9:39 PM | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
Thank you for compiling the INSAS data and I will listen to Philip advice not to compare with other but just give what I see in INSAS :
Posted by 3iii > Jul 9, 2019 10:23 PM | Report Abuse
Insas

At 81 sen per share
Number of Share: 693.33m: 663,006,342 (EXCLUDING 30,327,291 TREASURY SHARE)
Market Capital (RM): 561.60m : 537.03 million

What do you get for this price?

(A) From 2014 to 2018 (5 years)
Total Net Income 600.458 m (120.09 m per year)
Total Net Operating Cash Flow 186.175 (37.233 m per year)
Total Capex 63.028 m (12.6 m per year)
Total FCF 123.147 m (24.6 m per year)

(B) Balance Sheet 31.3.2019
Total Assets 2,357 m
Total Equity 1,724 m

(C) ROA & ROE
ROA = 120.09 / 2,357 = 5.09%
ROE = 120.09 / 1,724 = 6.96%

(D) Valuation
P/E = 561.6 / 120.09 = 4.7x
P/BV = 561.6 / 1,724 = 0.3255
FCF yield = 24.6 / 561.60 = 4.38%

My comment:
Number of Share: 663,006,342 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury share)
At 81 cents share price: Market Capital (RM): 537.03 million
FCF will depend on Outstanding loan given out by Money lending business: Insas Credit & Leasing Sdn Bhd, buying or selling of Associate companies share or conversion of associate companies warrant: Note: Refer Inari 2018 report: INSAS PLAZA SDN BHD 15,746,625 Warrant-B and Buying or selling of Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss.

What you get are:
A cash rich balance sheet: Total current assets 1,531,914,000 against Total liabilities 632,992,000 and healthy total non-current assets 825,432,000.
The non-current assets are:.
1. Property, plant and equipment 157,249,000: Retail trading and car rental business. Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 2,224,000
2. Investment properties 185,059,000: Property investment and development
Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 1,957,000
3. Financial assets at fair value through other comprehensive income 22,159,000: Long team bond and financial derivatives.
4. Associate companies 428,986,000: Share of profits less losses 34,215,000 financial period end 31th march 2019
5. Intangible assets 26,058,000: Financial services and credit & leasing license: Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 10,551,000

Note: the above profit + Interest/bond income minus interest expense plus gain/loss of financial assets at fair value and dividend received minus tax give the profit after tax of 64,192,000 for 9 month end 31th march 2019.

So INSAS business is nothing complicated, any reasonable CEO will be able to maintain a certain level of profit. Cash rich INSAS is trying to use part of it cash to generate Income better than deposit rate (Quoted securities investment, Money-lending, Bonds), fixed deposit 553,678,000, cash and bank balance 114,632,000 and venture into new associate companies with new patented products/services/business to grow it bottom line and hence you do not see the grow in top line (revenue).

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:52 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Jul 11, 2019 8:25 PM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Quote, “For me it is very very dastardly difficult. I'm just not as smart as Sslee, who is far far smarter than me in projecting future returns,” unquote. Thank you, you are too kind to say so but I am somewhat embarrassed by your kind word.
I did not make any projection future returns as I do not needed to do so. The question here is not about smart or stupid but everything to do with choice.

You have chosen to live up to everyone expectation and your own promised of 11 billion dollar man and decided to work 16 hour a day, 7 days a week and 52 weeks a year for the next 10 year to turn your top line and bottom line 3 fold (Profit of 600 million in year 10) Whereas I choose to live as a semi-retire 537 million dollar man, not living up to anyone expectation, no worry of any worst case scenario and have ample of time playing golf with KCChong knowing very well that I have:
Period end 31th March 2019
A cash rich balance sheet: Total current assets 1,531,914,000 against Total liabilities 632,992,000 and healthy total non-current assets 825,432,000.
The non-current assets business of:
1. Property, plant and equipment 157,249,000: Retail trading and car rental business. Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 2,224,000
2. Investment properties 185,059,000: Property investment and development
Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 1,957,000
3. Financial assets at fair value through other comprehensive income 22,159,000: Long team bond and financial derivatives.
4. Associate companies 428,986,000: Share of profits less losses 34,215,000 financial period end 31th march 2019
Intangible assets 26,058,000: Financial services and credit & leasing license: Profit/(Loss) for the financial period end 31th march 2019: 10,551,000
And use part of the cash to generate income better than deposit rate (Quoted securities investment, Money-lending and Bonds) and invested into new associate companies with new patented products/services/business to grow it bottom line. Net profit after tax 64,192,000

The best of all is my FCF as at any time I can turn my liquid assets to cash.
Proceeds from disposal of shares in an associate company 28,300,000
Gain on disposal of shares in an associate company 24,398,000

So it is a lifestyle choice. To each his own

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:52 |

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Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:53 |

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Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:54 | Report Abuse

Correctloh what u need is just 1 huge undervalue turnaround stock, with huge margin of safety like insas and armada to make a big impact on your return on your investment loh...!!

This is best safe & defensive investment strategy loh...!!

Remember stick to this margin of safety all the time, u cannot go out of fashioned, bcos this is the most durable investment strategy loh...!!

Posted by Sslee > Jul 13, 2019 12:39 PM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Thank you for the explanation and the youtu.be link.
I think American society is going into a very extreme where the super-rich control/monopoly all the big business and shut off the common people of any chance to own a piece of wealth from the growth of MARKET DISRUPTION and TOTAL ADDRESSIBLE MARKET where common people are on the receiving end of losing their jobs and the super rich become even richer.
A thousand dollar will go a long way for the commoners whereas a multi-million dollar to a billionaire is just another figure in his book generating no economic activities or value.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-richest-1-people-in-the-world-ar...
It is a scary future when richest 1% will control 2/3 of wealth.

Thank you
P/S: Luckily in Malaysia we are still able to own a piece of wealth from listed companies in Bursa if we do our homework well. I had to admit that I’m no way near Philip level in term of owing well managed and growth stocks. It seems I always end up with some stocks where I hope to make a different and unlock its value.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:55 | Report Abuse

BELOW IS A VERY IMPORTANT POSITIVE HIGHLIGHT OF INSAS LOH...!!

The board of directors already given a VERY POSITIVE HINTS on INSAS mah......!!

YES VERY IMPORTANT TO LISTEN TO THE HORSES MOUTH MAH...!!

Refer: http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226.pdf
KEY MATTERS DISCUSSED AT THE 56TH AGM
Quote, “The Board will evaluate and if appropriate, formulate a dividend policy when the markets recover, unquote”
For 9 month end 31th March 2019, Insas had reported an after tax net profit of RM 64,192,000 hopefully Q4 will be another profitable quarter and the BOD will reward the minority shareholders with another final dividend for financial year end 31th June 2019 and a formal dividend policy.

I had defend Insas numerous times in i3 forum, published my blog article:
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/198128.jsp

How Value can be Unlocked in Deep Value Stock? INSAS

And my latest comment on Insas i3blog, “I know many people had gave up on INSAS but credit is given where credit is due and not denying the fact that Dato’ Sri Thong had accumulated so much wealth into INSAS and I am actually looking forward to what Dato' Sri Thong going to offer come FEB 2020”

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:55 | Report Abuse

Correctloh what u need is just 1 huge undervalue turnaround stock, with huge margin of safety like insas and armada to make a big impact on your return on your investment loh...!!

This is best safe & defensive investment strategy loh...!!

Remember stick to this margin of safety all the time, u cannot go out of fashioned, bcos this is the most durable investment strategy loh...!!

Posted by Sslee > Jul 13, 2019 12:39 PM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Thank you for the explanation and the youtu.be link.
I think American society is going into a very extreme where the super-rich control/monopoly all the big business and shut off the common people of any chance to own a piece of wealth from the growth of MARKET DISRUPTION and TOTAL ADDRESSIBLE MARKET where common people are on the receiving end of losing their jobs and the super rich become even richer.
A thousand dollar will go a long way for the commoners whereas a multi-million dollar to a billionaire is just another figure in his book generating no economic activities or value.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-richest-1-people-in-the-world-ar...
It is a scary future when richest 1% will control 2/3 of wealth.

Thank you
P/S: Luckily in Malaysia we are still able to own a piece of wealth from listed companies in Bursa if we do our homework well. I had to admit that I’m no way near Philip level in term of owing well managed and growth stocks. It seems I always end up with some stocks where I hope to make a different and unlock its value.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:55 | Report Abuse

U NEED TO UNDERSTAND, INSAS DID A REALLY EXCELLENT JOB ON INVESTMENT, LIKE WARREN BUFFET SAYS IN LIFE U JUST NEED HIT A FEW "LARGE SUPER DUPER" LIKE INARI AND YOUR SUPERB RETURN ARE ALL LOCKED IN MAH...!!

THATS WHY INSAS INVESTMENT HOLDING ON INARI ALONE INVESTMENT EXCEEDED THE WHOLE MARKET CAPITALIZATION OF INSAS LOH...!!

THIS HOW SUPERB & FINE PERFORMANCE THE MANAGEMENT OF INSAS HATHAWAY HAD SHOWN LOH...!!

BELOW IS A VERY IMPORTANT POSITIVE HIGHLIGHT OF INSAS LOH...!!

The board of directors already given a VERY POSITIVE HINTS on INSAS mah......!!

YES VERY IMPORTANT TO LISTEN TO THE HORSES MOUTH MAH...!!

Refer: http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226.pdf
KEY MATTERS DISCUSSED AT THE 56TH AGM
Quote, “The Board will evaluate and if appropriate, formulate a dividend policy when the markets recover, unquote”
For 9 month end 31th March 2019, Insas had reported an after tax net profit of RM 64,192,000 hopefully Q4 will be another profitable quarter and the BOD will reward the minority shareholders with another final dividend for financial year end 31th June 2019 and a formal dividend policy.

I had defend Insas numerous times in i3 forum, published my blog article:
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/198128.jsp

How Value can be Unlocked in Deep Value Stock? INSAS

And my latest comment on Insas i3blog, “I know many people had gave up on INSAS but credit is given where credit is due and not denying the fact that Dato’ Sri Thong had accumulated so much wealth into INSAS and I am actually looking forward to what Dato' Sri Thong going to offer come FEB 2020”


Posted by sengkee > Jul 13, 2019 4:41 PM | Report Abuse

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/thong-brothers-hold-big-chunk-i...

Obviously, Insas has made a very sucessful Investment in Inari. But not in other listed companies like SYF.

Anyway, at 80sen, will it go down further? Safe to buy now?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:56 | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:57 | Report Abuse

This Philip is the salesman type of personality no financial management Skills loh...!!
No matter how good is your sales growth u must always convert it to profit loh..!!
That call for prudent financial management & use of quantitative analysis as suggested by raiders as a defensive safeguard for investor loh.....!!

Raider had met many growth orientated business men like Philip type, they can talk of exciting grandiose sales growth, but at the end ,their business went bankrupt, just bcos they do not know how to exercise financial restraints , management & prudent quantitative analysis loh...!!.

Insas boss know how to convert his business plan to profits, that what u want for a complete businessman who can ensure your company in safe hand & can grow & sustain profit loh...!!

(US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip

Stockraider attend MLM think he is getting a good deal for cheap price. Meanwhile, he is actually being conned by JJPTR that he is offering for deep value, while actual fact is his investment stuck is twilight zone for 5 years.

Only after fail on short term trading mechanics then he go around saying he is a long term investing. But in reality, his money is stuck in lala land.

Always be prudent & do not overpay and make sure got margin of safety loh...!!

The coffin of losses in klse are filled with many investors who overpay loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 1:39 PM | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:57 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:58 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:58 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 10:59 | Report Abuse

WHY INSAS IS A VALUE BUY WORLD BEATER LEH ??

1. INSAS HAS TRADITIONAL BUSINESS LIKE STOCKBROKING, STOCK INVESTMENT ,CORPORATE ADVISORY AND MONEY LENDING THAT GIVE VERY STEADY RETURN.

2. INSAS HAS SUBSTANTIALLY INVESTMENT IN INARI THAT GIVE ITS MARKET CAPITALIZATION HIGHER THAN INSAS OWN MKT CAP.

3. INSAS HAS SUBSTANTIAL NET CASH HOLDING & IN ADDITION HAS LARGE STRATEGIC HOLDING IS SOME LISTED COMPANY

There are more other potential catalysts—growth in earnings as business segments become increasing profitable, spin-offs, reorganizations, a new and good acquisition, big fair value gain on investment securities or simply a change in perception of investors, etc. Where there aren’t visible catalysts, activist investors sometimes get in and do the needful.

Note: The next catalyst time line:

http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226.pdf
The Board has taken note of the shareholders’ comments and will look into formulating a formal dividend policy depending how market recovers in the next nine (9) months. The Company has via an announcement on 26 November 2018 increased the interim dividend payment from 1 sen to 2 sen in respect of the financial year ending 30 June 2019.

http://www.inariberhad.com/img/ir/8th%20AGM%20minutes%20(Key%20Matters...
Latest development of Plant 34 in Batu Kawan: Construction of Block A with a floor space of 240,000 sqft has been completed and we target to build in the facilities by Jan-March 2019. Production of a new product is expected to commence by second half of 2019.

Block A has been allocated to one of our current customers while Blocks B & C are targeted for new customers. We endeavour to diversify our customer base while still maintaining good relationship with our existing customers. There are potential customers for the remaining 2 blocks, however, we are qualifying customers to select those with good products margin in the niche segments.

Health sensor is mainly used in lifestyle apps and activity tracker devices such as wearables and smartphones. We are in the right technology area as there is growing demand for health conscious real-time monitoring devices. MiniLED is mainly used in billboard advertisement. Our MiniLED production has started in small scale and it is important project for our Company which aligns to digital and modern applications.

Focus on managing costs and margin, and the implementation of Industry 4.0 to acheive greater efficiencies towards lowering of the manufacturing costs.

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/3379wb.jsp
INSAS-WB (3379WB); Maturity Date: Feb 25, 2020. Exercise Price: MYR 1.00. If Dato’ Sri Thong convert the INSAS-WB, he will need to make conditional MGO at price of RM 1.00 + INSAS-WB price on FEB 25 2020. If Dato’ Sri Thong do not convert INSAS-WB then it is free for all to gather 50% + 1 share and take over control of INSAS.

http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226-2.pdf
Numoni is a fintech startup. While it has not been able to gain traction in the e-payment industry, it continues to hold remittance licenses in Malaysia and Indonesia, as well as e-wallet license in Malaysia. Numoni is currently working on partnership or trade sale opportunities as the e-wallet businesses grow, at the same time continuing to develop its product platforms. We believe fintech continues to be important space for the Group to invest alongside its other Tech portfolio.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-23 11:00 | Report Abuse

Insas is one of the off map anomalies that give u good return loh...!!

What is the anomalies is the huge undervaluation & due to misinterpretation of insas mah ??

There have under estimated and misinterpreted the true potential of this stock loh..!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Jan 23, 2019 10:26 PM | Report Abuse

When asked how he could achieve 50% a year with small sums, Warren Buffett said,

“You have to turn over a lot of rocks to find those little anomalies. You have to find the companies that are off the map - way off the map.”