Posted by mf > 2020-05-21 19:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 19:44 | Report Abuse

sslee Insas die loh.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 19:44 | Report Abuse

riader too

Posted by duitKWSPkita > 2020-05-21 19:53 | Report Abuse

adui...................

RM51 mil loss




long waited.. can buy low

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-21 19:58 | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3
Another round of collecting at 35 cents.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 19:59 | Report Abuse

that is your style, not mine.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-21 20:02 | Report Abuse

Really expensive bintang beer... Hi everyone, I have started a telegram to help investors do rational investing. Please feel free to join and discuss on stocks without fear of spamming, trolling and backed by portfolio results. Tme/philipcapitalmanagement.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 20:04 | Report Abuse

ss...want to buy loss making and discounts to NTA, buy Genting/ Genting M better.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 20:06 | Report Abuse

ss, honestly....u didn't see it coming? I gave it a high probability event..........

Posted by EatCoconutCanWin > 2020-05-21 20:13 | Report Abuse

This is nothing else but is a rubbish. Change it.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 20:16 | Report Abuse

(Loss)/Gain on fair value changes of financial assets
at fair value through profit or loss (35,973) go ask them, when is such stuffs put through PL, when straight to Reserves......I have no idea........................

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-21 20:17 | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3,
You can check what are the financial assest (quoted stocks) and their AUD deposit at 31/12/2019 compare to 31/3/2020.
Omesti
IGB corporation
IGB reit
SYF
OCBC Ltd
AUD deposit eq RM 155.8 million

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 20:19 | Report Abuse

sometimes such stuffs are put to PL, some times straight to Reserves...I have no idea what is the rule....

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 20:20 | Report Abuse

I have not practised as auditor > 30 years.....its a different world when I was working.............

Posted by popo92 > 2020-05-21 22:39 | Report Abuse

Sslee sifu, investing in insas is not = investing in inari. You should treat insas like an investment company. Perhaps a berkshire hathaway kinda, right? I personally do not know where insas is heading all these years, i don't know for what good/bad reasons they are selling inari stakes recently but i do know they have not done any great investment like inari for quite a long time. You should be questioning them on agm for what reasons they want to list insas and sit on board getting paid.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sslee haha,
Bad Inari quarter result coming. But what you expect with MCO Inari only allowed to operate with half the workforce.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-21 22:40 | Report Abuse

SSLee

Why RM5.5m loss from share of associates when Inari’s profit was basically unchanged?

Which associate made such a big loss?

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-21 22:50 | Report Abuse

The merry dance of earnings and profits based on fair value changes in financial assets is great, but can only be used up to a certain point, when losses and valuation ceases to make the investment viable.

I remember that a Singapore oil trader was able to hide massive losses by using marked valuation accounting, it worked for many years until one day... It just stopped working.

https://www.asiaone.com/money/hin-leong-tradings-114b-cover-scandal-what-singaporeans-need-know

FYI, I am not comparing INSAS to hin Leong as insas has ample cash and assets, as repeated multiple times by Sslee. But fair value changes on stocks has a very interesting way of changing the value of the company, which is why the best way to monitor this mini Berkshire Hathaway is to look at operating earnings, not assets.

The productivity and growth of earnings shows how well the INSAS management is working on your behalf, and explains a lot on why the PE of INSAS is so low, why the expectations are so short.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-21 23:25 | Report Abuse

Philip

How do you explain a situation where the market cap of insas’s 19% stake in Inari is worth nearly twice the market cap of Insas?

What happened to the sun of the parts valuation model?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-21 23:26 | Report Abuse

Sum of the parts

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-21 23:29 | Report Abuse

Very good question, I am also confused as to why a company like parkson with 1.8 billion networth is selling for 10 cents or 107 million.

What happened to net assets model?

I think operating earnings is what happened.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-21 23:45 | Report Abuse

Just had a quick look at parkson’s balance sheet which is mainly fixed assets which may not so liquid unlike
Insas

If I were Thong, I would distribute the inari shares

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-21 23:49 | Report Abuse

Under the old rules, inari would not even qualify to be considered as an associate company - it is non-core despite what the board says as Inari has outgrown the parent and is more than able to stand on its own without any help from Insas

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-21 23:53 | Report Abuse

osted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > May 21, 2020 11:29 PM | Report Abuse

Very good question, I am also confused as to why a company like parkson with 1.8 billion networth
===========

wow....what happened to fair value accounting? don't they impair the assets?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-22 00:07 | Report Abuse

anticipating losses inInsas due to fair value accounting and no more equity aaccounting of Inari is called proactive.........of course easy to see after the event but proactive means see it coming first.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-22 06:13 | Report Abuse

Too bad you are not though. As a minority shareholder you probably don't have enough clout to put yourself a position in the bod, much less tell anyone what to do. Such is life of the retail investor.

Yes, I could never appreciate storybook accounting. But in the absence of growing earnings, many create new performance metrics like netflix, twitter, Uber etc to explain the growth of their company.

For INSAS it is the most undervalued company in Bursa. But how efficiently are they utilizing company equity to generate earnings? The reason why sum of parts so not work well for INSAS is because it's ROE versus capital employed is very low.

>>>>>>>>>

Under the old rules, inari would not even qualify to be considered as an associate company - it is non-core despite what the board says as Inari has outgrown the parent and is more than able to stand on its own without any help from Insas

>>>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Just had a quick look at parkson’s balance sheet which is mainly fixed assets which may not so liquid unlike
Insas

If I were Thong, I would distribute the inari shares
21/05/2020 11:45 PM

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-22 06:42 | Report Abuse

Think of insas as an investment holding company. If you think of it using business sense, imagine if you are buying a mutual fund that has volatility risk ( unlike fixed deposit), but last year year used $100 capital to generate $4.17, while EPF lowest in 2019 was 5.4%.

https://www.kwsp.gov.my/about-epf/news-highlights/news-highlights#Highlights

The difference is kwsp is managing almost 900 billion in assets, while INSAS is managing 1.73 billion in assets. That return is somewhat disappointing.

Comparing to a more efficient fund management company like affinhwang with 47 billion in assets under management, their return for their funds over the last 3 years has been around 15.8%.

https://www.imoney.my/unit-trust-investments

So using this as a comparison is much better than thinking of you buy INSAS today you will get back everything in 7 years. You need to think of it as putting your money in a fund manager and looking at his long term results, because even if you bought INSAS, you still need someone to manage it.

So many fund managers out there, why choose the one that has poor return on equity?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-22 08:14 | Report Abuse

Philip

That is precisely why insas should return the excess assets, to reduce the denominator

Immediately, Insas should buy back it’s own shares but the board has made a decision not to do so if it results in a mgo obligation by Thong

This is actually detrimental to the minority shareholders, which I will raise at the next AGM if there is no mgo waiver resolution

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-22 08:32 | Report Abuse

As SSLee has said before, DS Thong may have been reluctant to unlock value because of the potential dilution from warrant conversion

This is no more an issue, and I hope that DS Thong will do something soon since he has recently raised more than RM10m from the sale of his personal Inari shares (which is still ongoing)

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-22 08:33 | Report Abuse

If DS Thong really needed money, it would have been much easier to get Insas to declare a special cash dividend

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-22 09:28 | Report Abuse

Not as bad as originally thought, the price has already been factored the losses

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-22 09:34 | Report Abuse

SSLee

Which company contributed to the big loss on share of associates ?

If inari contributed about RM7m profit, another company must have lost over RM10m

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-22 09:41 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007,
You can look into segmental report Q2 and Q3 to have better understanding of segmental performance.

Financial services and credit &leasing: Investment holding and trading: Technology and IT-related manufacturing, trading and services: Retail trading and car rental: Property investment and development end Q2 and end Q3 (RM’000)
Profit/(loss) before tax: 19,287: 8,244: 21,644: 2,252: 3,386: Total 54,813
Profit/(Loss) before tax: 23,083: (56,506): 28,896: 3,173: 6,482: Total 5,128

INSAS is almost like ICAP but with core business in M&A, INSAS credit and leasing and car rental& leasing with quoted and unquoted associate (Inari, Hohup, DGSB, Melium, Winfield and others) and Financial asset quoted shares (IGB Reits, Omesti, SYF, OCBC and others)
Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss at end of 31/3/2020 RM 171,297,000
Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss at end of 31/12/2020 RM 234,104,000
Inasas Annual report 31/6/2019
Quoted securities, at market value
- in Malaysia; RM 52,371,000
- outside Malaysia: RM 181,862,000 Sing alone RM equivalent 115,620,000
Gross dividends from financial assets at fair value through profit or loss:-
- quoted in Malaysia: RM 1,617,000
- quoted outside Malaysia: RM 5,148,000

IGBREIT annual report 31-12-2019: Montego Assets Limited (PCB) 10,000,000
Market price 31/12/2019: RM 1.89: 31/03/2020: RM 1.59

Omesti annual report: 31-3-2019: Insas Berhad – – 48,659,500
Market price 31/12/2019 RM 0.51: 31/03/2020: RM 0.45

SYF annual report 31-07/2019: Insas Berhad - - 50,015,200
Market price 31/12/2019: RM 0.16: 31/03/2020: RM 0.15

I cannot find the exact holding in OCBC as the annual report only list the top 20 shareholder. The OCBC holding most likely hold thro associate Winfields Development Pte. Ltd.* 40% Investment holding in properties and trading of securities and other financial instruments Singapore and other wholly own investment company.
Investment holding and trading Share of profits less losses of associate companies (12,399,000)
Market price 31/12/2019 SG 10.98: 31/03/2020: SG 8.64
Loss on exchange differences- unrealized: RM (9,454,000)
This is refer to AUD deposit Refer Financial report 2019 RM equivalent 167,694,000

This is what I can say about INSAS q3 result:
Next AGM just ask BOD what they plan to invest, acquire and buy. LEARN from them, how they value company, what is their strategy, what is the opportunity, where and when.

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-22 09:47 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007
Investment holding and trading: Share of profits less losses of associate companies (12,399,000)
This one from 40 % associate company: Winfields Development Pte. Ltd (Investment holding in properties and trading of securities and other financial instruments Singapore)

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-05-22 10:30 | Report Abuse

Ok tqvm

Posted by sell > 2020-05-22 13:32 | Report Abuse

2 weeks MCO so much loss? Next QR >2 months MCO how?

Posted by newbie4444 > 2020-05-28 04:43 | Report Abuse

Loss QR also up? Philip why ah?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-05-28 07:19 | Report Abuse

REMEMBER THE LOSS WAS ON 31-3-2020 QTR...FYI 31-3-2020 THE STOCKMARKET COLLAPSE AROUND THIS PERIOD...EVEN WARREN BUFFET REPORTED LOST USD 50B ON HIS INVESTMENT MAH....!!

BUT CURRENTLY MARKET UP AT LEAST 25% TO 50% FROM THE LOW....THAT MEANS THE MARK TO MARKET IMPAIRMENT LOSSES OF INSAS IN MARCH WILL BE LIKELY BE REVERSE IN JUNE LOH....!!

THAT MEANS INSAS WILL REPORT HUGE JUMP IN PROFIT FOR 30-6-2020 MAH..!!

DON BE SOHAI...NOW IS THE TIME TO LOAD UP KAW KAW ON INSAS LOH...!!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-28 21:56 | Report Abuse

You been saying that for 1.5 year... Still not yet give up?

Ql already hit RM10 lo, where my bak kut teh?

>>>>>>>

DON BE SOHAI...NOW IS THE TIME TO LOAD UP KAW KAW ON INSAS LOH...!!
28/05/2020 7:19 AM

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 08:06 | Report Abuse

My thoughts on value traps.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/philip6/2020-05-29-story-h1507892411-How_to_Spot_Value_Traps_or_WHY_I_WASTED_3_YEARS_HOLDING_THE_VALUE_INVES.jsp

Posted by kyosan > 2020-05-29 13:38 | Report Abuse

why this guys....not syariah~... haishh~.. .their related company just announce very big news, it's covid-19 related, wait other join the boat first~ then it will fly when everyone onboard~ =)

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 20:20 | Report Abuse

Dear Kyosan,
Are you talking about below news?
https://www.sengenics.com/immusafe-covid-test/
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/marii-sengenics-develop-worlds-first-qualitative-quantitative-covid19-test-kit

Posted by kyosan > 2020-05-29 21:48 | Report Abuse

Correct, u found it..good

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 23:01 | Report Abuse

Dear Kyosan,
INSAS technology still holds 17.4% equity. Sengenics seeing 'explosive growth' in partnerships with 9/10 top pharma companies.
https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/912778/sengenics-seeing--explosive-growth--in-partnerships-with-910-top-pharma-companies-912778.html

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-30 12:17 | Report Abuse

Can you put numbers into this explosive growth? How much was the revenue and profits?

this is a technology that started in th e 90's, and sengenics bought over 6 years ago. But what is financial status of the company?

How much is this explosive growth been in terms of YoY revenue and profit growth?

>>>>>>>>

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/912778/sengenics-seeing--explosive-growth--in-partnerships-with-910-top-pharma-companies-912778.html

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-30 12:25 | Report Abuse

http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226.pdf

found it, sengenics "explosive growth" is1.6m usd in 2018 to 37m usd in 2019, with 44 staff and zero profit for the last 6 years. The losses were 1.7m usd in 2018 to losses in 2019 of USD

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-30 12:27 | Report Abuse

The shareholder funds of 4.5m USD is it enough to capitalize the company? or require more dividends from inari to prop it up as it finds a way to profitability?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-05-30 13:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kyosan > 2020-05-30 18:51 | Report Abuse

Dont see past..see prospect..better see back when this pandemic covid19 is ended..then can see how much it gain...now cannot see..same with other related covid19 stock..even qtr rslt not out..price already appreciate double triple.. investing to me not buy today tomorrow sell..peace~

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-30 19:48 | Report Abuse

Haha,
Usd 1.6 m to 37 m is actually growth of 23 times.
Did glove growth 23 times?

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-30 20:22 | Report Abuse

Revenue growth but continuous 6 years of growing losses. What's the point of doing a business if it's not making money?