Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-15 17:19 | Report Abuse

SSlee

I know the Insas financials by heart now

I am sure the board also knows how to unlock value but what the directors actually do will very much depend on the generosity of DS Thong

I hope you will engage with Dato Wong as soon as possible (maybe even now since everyone is on lockdown) so that he cannot repeat his excuse about shortage of time

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 06:34 | Report Abuse

Hi kctai3007,
Firstly, my advice is to ignore Leno. She is a troll who doesn't make sense and keep talking bullshit. She has bought and sold INSAS many times in the last few years, making a profit or not I have no idea, but definitely not a long term holder of INSAS.

For the second item, what is the benefit to INSAS the company to distribute shares in inari in this way. You already know that it's biggest earnings come from dividends generated from inari payout, and also the share sales of inari.

If they were to distribute shares of inari in this way, you would sell everything, dump INSAS and go along your merry way. What is the benefit to company for doing that?

The goal of ANY business is to generate more revenue and earnings, reduce more debt than last year. By selling inari( giving away), the company would lose a huge shorter of earnings, that can be reinvested. Why?

Personally, if I was a company director would you cut off your arm to give away to traders and speculators who will leave you immediately when times are bad.

That is a big reason why Berkshire does not give out dividends.

1. They can compound earnings better than you.
2. They don't want short term investors.

The only reason why you would still be holding on to your INSAS shares is because you are definitely holding it at a loss. You are not interested in buying more in a wonderful company, because you know Insas is not a wonderful company. Just an average company with assets. Your plan of earning money within 6 months has turned into a forced long term "investment" because you are losing money on your stocks.

If you want to do short term investing, the learn how to cut loss. If you want to do value investing, then you need to know how to buy consistently during discount day sales.

But one thing you need to understand, INSAS is not a wonderful company, never was. It is an average company with ASSETS. That is all. You need to know what type of company you are buying.

>>>>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Philip

I wish to return to the inari issue

You talk about dumping the inari shares in the market but I am talking about distributing them as in-specie dividends to the Insas shareholders, some of whom may wish to retain the inari shares (especially DSThong who will get one third thereof or over 6% of inari)

Even if say half of the 19% are sold, the market will be able to absorb

Furthermore, Insas need not distribute them at one go, and can do so gradually
15/04/2020 10:13 AM

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 06:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:15 | Report Abuse

Philip

Thank you - your points are noted.

It is precisely because Insas is a company with assets that it should distribute its inari shares, because Mr Market is not giving Insas due credit (he is completely discounting the value that inari brings to Insas)

It will be very difficult to change Mr Market’s mind, and I think it would be better for Insas to go it alone without
Inari. Even if ex-inari, Insas is valued at say 10 sen, everyone is better off because they will have got almost 1 inari share per Insas share

Don’t forget, the book NTA of Insas ex- inari will still be in excess of RM2, and the new challenge of the Insas board will be be bridge the gap between the adjusted market price (10 sen) and the >RM2 NTA

Otherwise, it will always be (inadequately) valued by its inari stake and nothing else, which is a shame as the rest of Insas is still very valuable

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:23 | Report Abuse

Actually, if I were a really independent Insas director, I would simply distribute all its assets and call it a day

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 07:24 | Report Abuse

the person most familiar with Insas is still Leno.
and anybody who makes fun of him will learn nothing at all.
Nothing at all.
Nothing.

Given the right circumstances, Leno is a kind person who will tell you things.
But I dun think he will say anything now coz he will not want Philip to learn anything at all.
Philip is a great destructor of knowledge and sharing in i3investor

That is a great pity.

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 07:27 | Report Abuse

Bye troll, lucky for you this year no upsr or pt3. Otherwise you have to repeat a year.
Please stick to investments, no one is even remotely interested in your purchasing history, or even your existence.

>>>>>>

i3lurker
Philip's comments are mostly lies.
He makes wild accusations against all and sundry, all from his imagination.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:28 | Report Abuse

Insas is an asset stripper’s wet dream

Can you imagine what Slater Walker, a famous name from yesteryear, would do if it gained control of Insas?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 07:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 07:31 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:39 | Report Abuse

I3lurker

Noted

Maybe Slater Walker is not the best example to quote but there are many activist funds today who will not tolerate the undervaluation in Insas

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 07:43 | Report Abuse

Your opinion is valid, but still you are thinking like corporate raider.

Minority shareholders like us should never buy a company expecting break it into parts.

If we are doing investing as a minority investor, all we can do is participate in the growth of a company.

You are right in that markets can stay inefficient longer than you can stay solvent. So you HAVE to be very very careful in what stocks you pick and how you buy them.

"Insas is valued at say 10 sen, everyone is better off because they will have got almost 1 inari share per Insas share" - the company is not better off, and neither are long term investors in INSAS.

Fyi, I am interested in what else if INSAS is still very valuable by your standards, if you value Insas at 10 cents, or 65 million in market cap.

>>>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Philip

Thank you - your points are noted.

It is precisely because Insas is a company with assets that it should distribute its inari shares, because Mr Market is not giving Insas due credit (he is completely discounting the value that inari brings to Insas)

It will be very difficult to change Mr Market’s mind, and I think it would be better for Insas to go it alone without
Inari. Even if ex-inari, Insas is valued at say 10 sen, everyone is better off because they will have got almost 1 inari share per Insas share

Don’t forget, the book NTA of Insas ex- inari will still be in excess of RM2, and the new challenge of the Insas board will be be bridge the gap between the adjusted market price (10 sen) and the >RM2 NTA

Otherwise, it will always be (inadequately) valued by its inari stake and nothing else, which is a shame as the rest of Insas is still very valuable
16/04/2020 7:15 AM

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 07:44 | Report Abuse

Activist funds only work when the company needs support from the public like say.......... Iphone products sold to general public.

Insas directors wun bother at all.
They have no need to pander to public warm feelings at all.

In such cases, activist funds always fails.

As you can see.
INSAS only increased the dividend when "someone" retired so need the dividend income coz will not be getting salary and perks anymore.
No activist managed to increase the dividend payaout at all.

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 07:45 | Report Abuse

Hi kid,

I3 investing started in 2010.
20 years ago, I was still surfing internet using altavista and having a rocketmail account. I don't think you were even born yet at that time.

Your level of lies confuses even your own self.

>>>>>>>>>>

We have known Leno for umpteen years, until I cannot even remember how many years.
Now that I think back it is 15 to 20 years or maybe more.
I dun keep track of such things coz not a kpc on other people.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:52 | Report Abuse

Philip

Ex inari, Insas will still have the stockbroking operation and the credit/leading arm, which can be grown

This can be the new business model

If all else fails, just liquidate the company, which is very cash rich

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 07:54 | Report Abuse

I3lurker

An activist fund can just buy shares and become a nuisance - that is the modus operandi

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 08:07 | Report Abuse

Kctai3007, I think you will have realized by now that bursa laws and market is a very different animal indeed compared to NYSE or other exchanges. If you come in assuming that the market is the same, companies accounting and management are stringently managed and fairly audited, you will be in for a rude surprise.

I have been investing for more than 20 years and have written a few articles on my bitter experience buying on just accounting and annual reports only, without looking at the whole picture and real world input.

I sincerely hope you do well in your investment in INSAS and that sslee is true In that with no share dilution, clarity after the warrant lapse, many things will start moving for INSAS.

Patience is the key to investment.

Good luck, and continue to keep learning new things everyday. I was on your exact same path before.

https://klse.i3investor.com/m/blog/phillipinvesting/2019-01-04-story188844-How_to_invest_for_the_long_game_without_losing_your_shoes.jsp

Luckily I was young when I made my mistakes, and was able to learn from it and improve on it.

Today I have a nice retirement portfolio setup( with family, friends and some healthy margin from banks taken up during covid 19)

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-16 08:15 | Report Abuse

I believe you can trust sslee remarks, as it is his biggest stock component. Based on his buying history, sslee has held Insas for the last 3 years, so I'm sure he knows what he is talking about. I believe investors should always start their own trackable portfolio and monitor it over a longer period.

But personally, if you believe that Insas is cheap at 90 cents, at 57 cents it is beyond cheap( sslee has spoken many times that at 50 cents shorted by i3lurker he will take up margin sell father mother and buy every bit of share possible in INSAS).

As you can see from my own buying on margin, my biggest purchases were last month in March, and it has given me good results.

I believe sslee has also benefited buying in the short term Insas at 35 cents.

The trick now is to see what happens in the long term.

That can only come from revenue and earnings increase.


>>>>>>>>>

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/137236.jsp

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 08:20 | Report Abuse

I am totally not surprised by your statement as your level of intelligence is quite limited.

I guess you already know that I will NOT be telling you anything.

Maybe Leno will tell you instead.

Like I said before, you are a Great Destructor of knowledge and sharing in i3.

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > Apr 16, 2020 7:45 AM | Report Abuse
Hi kid,

I3 investing started in 2010.
20 years ago, I was still surfing internet using altavista and having a rocketmail account. I don't think you were even born yet at that time.

Your level of lies confuses even your own self.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-16 08:51 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007,
If you already know the Insas financials by heart now then why the need to keep asking advice from open forum especially from (Honesty is expensive. Don’t expect frm cheap ppl)?

Do you honestly expecting a honest advice from a cheap ppl who did not even know the SBB buyback resulting 33% threshold rule of conditional MGO which became unconditional upon receiving acceptance resulting in offeror and PAC reach 50% shareholding and appointment of independent adviser.

Quote from Philip, “With the NTA and assets of RM2.65 (according to stockraider, RM3.6?), They can easily begin a huge buying spree and buy 10% of the market cap (38.8 milion) at drop down prices of RM0.56-0.72, and initiate MGO for the rest of the 7% at RM0.9. So for slightly under RM90 million (which they can easily borrow from the bank to cover assets of 1.6billion/2 (800 million)), they can make a unrealized profit of 700 million.” Unquote. What a silly and illegal proposition

Nor Philip know what is INSAS core business and associate companies did not contributed revenue but only share of profit/loss hence it is possible for increase profit without increase revenue.

If you are impatient then sell INSAS never look back and buy Philip's Pump and Dump PPHB, Star or Gkent where he promised 20 million NP per quarter, good dividend and plenty of SBB to push up the share price.

Thank you

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 09:00 | Report Abuse

SS lee

It never hurts to hear from all sides

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 09:35 | Report Abuse

SS lee

You mentioned that at last year’s AGM, Dato Wong said that the board was not recommending the inari in specie distribution because there were over 20,000 Insas shareholders and their mass sale of inari shares could depress the market price

Actually that should not be the board’s concern because it must look after the interest of the Insas shareholders, and not the inari shareholders

They need not worry about what happens to the inari share price after Insas distributes the inari shares

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-16 10:15 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
This is my honest opinion.
Many Malaysia companies had tried taking on huge loans to take on oversea projects and many had failed.

So my question can any Malaysia companies compete with Chinese in term of price to price, speed to speed and in government support.

Many China oversea projects, in term of raw materials, equipment, manpower and finance are heavily supported by Mainland China thus they can complete the project in super fast time with after services China engineers running and maintenance the newly complete project for you.

Can any Malaysia companies have these capabilities to compete with Mainland China companies?

Thank you
P/S: Dear Kctai3007
Insas is controlling shareholder of Inari and the Inari business customers is build on Insas continues to play the controlling shareholder role. If Insas cease to be controlling shareholders then Inari will be another GLC and would you like PAS MP to head Inari?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-04-16 10:28 | Report Abuse

Correctloh...the more u ask...u may run into the risk...of innocently bump into people like naysayers like Philip & 3iii and u maybe convince to sell undervalue gem with huge margin of safety like insas at big discount prices mah...!!

Just remember Ben Graham teaching, insas is a value investment with huge margin of safety, u should hold it at about 3 years to realized its big potential loh....!!

Do not be swayed by short termism chasing overvalue QL with PE above 50x...understanding the logic of maths lah....don let it get wasted, insas is a much worthwhile investment compare to QL mah...!!

Posted by Sslee > Apr 16, 2020 8:51 AM | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007,
If you already know the Insas financials by heart now then why the need to keep asking advice from open forum especially from (Honesty is expensive. Don’t expect frm cheap ppl)?

Do you honestly expecting a honest advice from a cheap ppl who did not even know the SBB buyback resulting 33% threshold rule of conditional MGO which became unconditional upon receiving acceptance resulting in offeror and PAC reach 50% shareholding and appointment of independent adviser.

Quote from Philip, “With the NTA and assets of RM2.65 (according to stockraider, RM3.6?), They can easily begin a huge buying spree and buy 10% of the market cap (38.8 milion) at drop down prices of RM0.56-0.72, and initiate MGO for the rest of the 7% at RM0.9. So for slightly under RM90 million (which they can easily borrow from the bank to cover assets of 1.6billion/2 (800 million)), they can make a unrealized profit of 700 million.” Unquote. What a silly and illegal proposition

Nor Philip know what is INSAS core business and associate companies did not contributed revenue but only share of profit/loss hence it is possible for increase profit without increase revenue.

If you are impatient then sell INSAS never look back and buy Philip's Pump and Dump PPHB, Star or Gkent where he promised 20 million NP per quarter, good dividend and plenty of SBB to push up the share price.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2020-04-16 10:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-16 11:04 | Report Abuse

Diversity that's the key word in the share market.

Leno had been playing with INSAS for umpteen years and had been making money.
We are happy for him.

To every person there is a share he is happy with.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 11:11 | Report Abuse

Stockraider

I agreee with you that Insas as a corporate shareholder conttibutes nothing to inari

Post distribution, nothing will change as the same individuals (DS Thong, Dato Dr Tan etc) will still lead inari

Furthermore, DS Thong will end up as biggest shareholder of inari

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 11:13 | Report Abuse

FYI all the global companies don’t have any “major” shareholders - they are mostly owned by funds who do not interfere in the management

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 11:19 | Report Abuse

In any event, Insas as a 19% shareholder isn’t even allowed to provide financial assistance to inari as it is not a subsidiary

Posted by stockraider > 2020-04-16 11:34 | Report Abuse

As i say right now...Inari do not need any help from Insas loh...!!

In fact Insas need to free inari to unlocked value to give insas a better value & improve its financial even much more mah...!!

Posted by Kctai3007 > Apr 16, 2020 11:13 AM | Report Abuse

FYI all the global companies don’t have any “major” shareholders - they are mostly owned by funds who do not interfere in the management


Kctai3007
67 posts
Posted by Kctai3007 > Apr 16, 2020 11:19 AM | Report Abuse

In any event, Insas as a 19% shareholder isn’t even allowed to provide financial assistance to inari as it is not a subsidiary

Posted by leno > 2020-04-16 12:02 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 12:09 | Report Abuse

Leno

Insas does not need cash so RPS is unlikely especially at 4%

Like SSlee, I think that warrants are dilutive and I don’t think DS Thong will consider it again after what happened in February

Posted by leno > 2020-04-16 12:46 | Report Abuse

u are amateur ... u dun understand 1 sheet. For eg. why do u buy insas in expectation of ah thong will convert warrant and do MGO. So, did ah thong convert ? MGO ? Why does this tell u ? It tell me u are amateur. U are wrong last time, what make u think u are right this time? I was right so many times before ... wat make u think i will be wrong ? I make multiple millions from share market. Retired at 39 year old from medical practice. Stop thinking. U are poor in judgement.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-16 13:46 | Report Abuse

Thank you

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-17 06:09 | Report Abuse

Kctai3007, you seem to be a looking for dividends and value. Mary I introduce you to boon siew? Very good returns and high cash, zero debt and good value. Just sell all your INSAS and put all in Oriental holdings. They sell all the Honda and mitsubishi bikes, which have a stranglehold in Malaysia and good sales abroad. A wonderful company now giving you 7+ % dividends, the majority owner has 67% ownership and is very shareholder friendly. Good wonderful economy resistant company with wonderful earnings every quarter.

This crisis has provided you and opportunity to buy these companies at 10 year lows. With blood on the street, it is times like this that allow you to buy wonderful companies at drop down prices.

I can guarantee you in the next 3-6 years, you will be far happen investing in old boon siew than in INSAS.

They do almost everything that INSAS does, except they are far more successful in their ventures into healthcare, hotel, transportation, investment holding, plantations, and motor bikes. They have a wonderful history of earnings and revenues growth, and buying Oriental holdings today you will get high dividends, and a guarantee rerating of their stocks prices, as they will come out of this crisis far faster and easier than a company like INSAS.

Warren Buffett evolved his investing methods after he met Charlie munger. He no longer bought cigar butt companies selling below liquidation prices. Instead he realized that paying fair price for wonderful companies would give him a far better return in the long run.

Don't be afraid to sell bad stocks at a loss. You can earn it back by investing in good ones. You just have to throw away the ego, admit your mistakes, learn from it and move on. Holding on to value traps is just stupid in the long term.

Good luck.

And stop listening to talking cats, too much catshit. You know it. I know it.

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 07:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 07:36 | Report Abuse

Philip and i3lurker

Thank you but cutting loss is not an option at the moment

Insas may well be a value trap instead of deep value stock but I am still hoping that something will turn up to save the day

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 07:38 | Report Abuse

If you want to know how Honda Japan got into a shit situation.
its very very easy.
You just look from left to right.
Do you see a lot of old Honda cars on the road?
Just ignore your toilet bowl when you are looking left to right will be good.

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 07:40 | Report Abuse

kctai3007

since you dun want to cut loss.
IMHO Insas while not exactly a motherlode of gold is much lower risk than companies like Oriental.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 07:49 | Report Abuse

Noted tq

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 07:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 07:54 | Report Abuse

It’s ancient history now of course but does anyone wish to explain why DS Thong did not convert his warrants and trigger the mgo to possibly gain majority control of Insas?

I thought it was a no-brainer decision given how much he could have made (I calculated it was in the hundreds of million RM)

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 09:59 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007

I only met Dato’ Sri Thong one during 2017 AGM where I argue with him for hours on better dividend and question him why he sold his WB. At the end of the AGM I actually walk up to him, say thank you to him and get his name-card. I am surprise he gentlemanly did not sell his WB anymore after that and appointed Dato’ Wong to take over CEO post before 2018 AGM.

Dato’ Sri Thong is a very private, reclusive and savvy businessman, credit must be given to him for building up INSAS net-worth: https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/fin/3379.jsp?type=last10fy
30/6/2010: RM 823,480,000 to RM 1,737,078,000 on 30/6/2019.

As of why he did not convert WB and trigger a conditional MGO at RM 1.00, no one know the actual reason by my guess is if he cannot get the SC approval to buy INSAS from open market during offer period then his offer will sure be rejected by INSAS BOD base on independent advisor opinion of Offer price unfair and unreasonable.

The best option for Dato’ Sri Thong now is MGO waiver for SBB to start again for INSAS to buy back 10% of it share each year for next few years. Dato’ Sri Thong can then do conditional MGO when his is in position to cross over the 50% where offer become unconditional.

Thank you

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 10:19 | Report Abuse

SSLee

Thank you for your views

Actually, for Insas to buy back 10% each year, it must first cancel the treasury shares bought before it can embark on a fresh round of buyback

Otherwise, Insas cannot buy back anymore after reaching the 10% limit

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 10:38 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 10:41 | Report Abuse

kctai ... u still on buyback ? Aiyor ... insas doing buy back share last time and distribute it to share holders. I received many shares from distribution last time. Shareholder untung lar ... but insas got untung or not ? Insas spend cash to buy back shares then give to shareholder. It is troublesome, waste commision and a lot of paperwork to distribute the shares. It is easier to pay dividend, and shareholder can decide to buy more insas or buy anything else. So, i told ah thong exactly this. Since then no more buyback.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 10:46 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 10:50 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 10:52 | Report Abuse

Wow, I finally respect Leno. He is far far far wiser than sslee.

Right attitude.

That is how one should go about investing in a company, instead of all the misguided dividends, corporate raidership, share dilution and warrants etc.

One should treat investing like getting married and concentrate on growing the company. And not thinking of short term benefits and short term goals.

The goal is always how to increase revenues and earnings for the company. If this is done well, the share price will follow suit.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 10:53 | Report Abuse

this kind of writing and explanation .. u will not get from anyone or anywhere. Only from leno. Now, u understand why people keep calling leno as the most intelligent investor in the world.