Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 10:59 | Report Abuse

Philip and Leno

What you both say is correct but theoretical

Insas has been doing all this especially in the last few years (when inari grew from nothing into a huge company) but Mr Market didn’t want to know

So how?

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:00 | Report Abuse

And finally, i repeat ... INSAS is a INVESTMENT company. Not steel company, not oil company, not banking, or sell maggi mee company. It is INVESTMENT company. Investment company WANT CASH. They use CASH to INVEST. They usually will give zero dividend or as low as possible. And every few years, they will ask for MORE money. In INSAS case, it will this year. I know, because this is what INSAS do ... repeated and repeated again. They will tell u, okay ... the time has come, everything now become cheap. It is time to acquire directly or indirectly. Give me your money by sucribing our 4% rps and we will give u 2 free warrants. Same statement every 5 years. Copy and paste.

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 11:04 | Report Abuse

Leno => Thumbs Up !!!

Thank you!!!

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:05 | Report Abuse

So, the investment bank from Public bank, oversea bank, singapore bank will rush in to buy insas share, so that their bank can subcribe to the 4% rps and get 2 free warrant somemore. Bank take your money by paying 2.5% FD to you and give to insas and receive 4% rps. This is FREE money to bank, minimal risk. They can sell out the 2 warrant straight away, to subcribe for more 4%rps. That is why everytime insas announce 4%rps, insas share will shoot up. Sslee just bought insas, so he dunno anything about this thing at all. It will be his first time to experience this.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-04-17 11:07 | Report Abuse

right, investment company but if investors loss money after 10 years, next 10 years can be good to you meh?

u want only donating to ( their not yours) family piggy bank...

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 11:17 | Report Abuse

Dear leno,
Thank you for your opinions.

My opinion:
Dividend: The very basic of the capital market is investors provide capital for company to do business, and the investors got return in term of regular dividends, from the free cash flows of the company, not from borrowings. A steady and stable cash dividend payout often signals financial health and operational soundness of a listed company.

SBB: Buyback shares when the share price is undervalued are definitely good for the company and the shareholders. Doing SBB below NTA for cancelation will enhance the NTA further.

Fairness: It is unfair to reward only the rich or investment bankers with RPS and free warrant. Please attend the AGM to have a feel for the suffering of minority shareholders.

Finally please beware of TWO FACE Philip, he can camouflage faster than an octopus. This is what he says about you: “And stop listening to talking cats, too much catshit. You know it. I know it.”17/04/2020 6:09 AM”
And then Wow, I finally respect Leno. He is far far far wiser than sslee. 17/04/2020 10:52 AM

Thank you.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 11:19 | Report Abuse

Leno

You are a real foul mouth

I am not blaming anyone - sometimes it is good to just state one’s frustrations out loud

You should be more charitable in your postings

I will no longer respond to them- - they are non-constructive and mean-spirited

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:25 | Report Abuse

u are welcome.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 11:34 | Report Abuse

Haha leno,
Because not many people will be as rich as you to take up the RPS. Many will just sell at push up price of slighly over RM 1.00 when the real value is many time over. So is this fair.

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 11:35 | Report Abuse

kctai3007

you are still young
my experience is that Leno is a very kind person

in fact my life experience tells me that 99% of foul mouthed people are kind also.

the ones who are cruel and steal pennies from your coin boxes are those sweet talkers who ask you to buy high risk stocks.
They speak nicely with no foul language. Beware of these conmen.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 11:36 | Report Abuse

Sheet ! I tok too much. Dear forumers. As a disclaimers, i want to sincerely announce i make up all the above story, It is just a FICTION. Nothing related with real or unreal stock and company. Insas is actually a sheet counter, Please dun buy. Go buy oriental. If u hold insas, go sell and buy more oriental. Sekian, harap maklum.

Posted by gohku > 2020-04-17 12:27 | Report Abuse

I tend to agree with sslee view.

Posted by Sslee > Apr 17, 2020 11:17 AM | Report Abuse

Dear leno,
Thank you for your opinions.

My opinion:
Dividend: The very basic of the capital market is investors provide capital for company to do business, and the investors got return in term of regular dividends, from the free cash flows of the company, not from borrowings. A steady and stable cash dividend payout often signals financial health and operational soundness of a listed company.

SBB: Buyback shares when the share price is undervalued are definitely good for the company and the shareholders. Doing SBB below NTA for cancelation will enhance the NTA further.

Fairness: It is unfair to reward only the rich or investment bankers with RPS and free warrant. Please attend the AGM to have a feel for the suffering of minority shareholders.

Finally please beware of TWO FACE Philip, he can camouflage faster than an octopus. This is what he says about you: “And stop listening to talking cats, too much catshit. You know it. I know it.”17/04/2020 6:09 AM”
And then Wow, I finally respect Leno. He is far far far wiser than sslee. 17/04/2020 10:52 AM

Thank you.

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 12:47 | Report Abuse

Theoretical? I beg to differ.


https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp

I have held QL for the last 11 years, topglove for the last 10, YINSON for the last 8. So I believe it is not a theory, but a fact of life?

May I ask? How long have you been investing in Bursa market?

Not an insulting question, but just to know your investing length so I can understand better.
>>>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Philip and Leno

What you both say is correct but theoretical

Insas has been doing all this especially in the last few years (when inari grew from nothing into a huge company) but Mr Market didn’t want to know

So how?
17/04/2020 10:59 AM

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 13:14 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
You wrote: “Oriental holdings. They sell all the Honda and mitsubishi bikes, which have a stranglehold in Malaysia and good sales abroad. A wonderful company now giving you 7+ % dividends, the majority owner has 67% ownership and is very shareholder friendly. Good wonderful economy resistant company with wonderful earnings every quarter.
They do almost everything that INSAS does, except they are far more successful in their ventures into healthcare, hotel, transportation, investment holding, plantations, and motor bikes. They have a wonderful history of earnings and revenues growth, and buying Oriental holdings today you will get high dividends, and a guarantee rerating of their stocks prices, as they will come out of this crisis far faster and easier than a company like INSAS.”

People can tell beautiful story but the quantitative figure cannot lies:
Tell me is picking a winner: a science, an art, a skill, pure luck or act of god?
And why all IR analyst and EPF support QL at PE50? What is QL competitor CP Thailand PE?

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/fin/4006.jsp?type=last10fy
Pity Orient with good dividend but
31/12/2012. EPS 32.34 cents, DPS: 8 cents, Price: RM8.70, PE: 26.9, Net worth: RM 4,596,655,000
31/12/2019. EPS 56.50cents, DPS: 40 cents, Price: RM 6.55, PE: 11.59 Net worth: RM 6,666,968,000


https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/fin/7084.jsp?type=last10fy
Lucky QL
31/3/2012. EPS 15.79 cents, DPS: 4.5 cents, Price: RM3.25, PE: 20.57, Net worth: RM 815,164,000
31/3/2019. EPS 13.36cents, DPS: 4.5 cents, Price: RM 6.88, PE: 51.50, Net worth: RM 1,946,915,000

So please count you good luck with QL and luck will not last forever.

Thank you

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 13:16 | Report Abuse

Philip

I am also a stock market veteran but without as much success as you

I bought Insas in anticipation of the mgo but was also cognisant that even if it did not materialise, the fundamentals will support at least RM1

The risk reward tradeoff was very favourable, or so I thought

I never expected that the share price would retrace to the present levels, which were last seen several years ago

I know you think otherwise but how can a shareholder tolerate a situation where one of the company’s assets is worth nearly twice the value of the whole company

It is not enough for the directors to just say that this is a
stock market freak occurrence

Actually, the directors have a fiduciary duty under the Companies Act to address this anomaly, which is very detrimental to all shareholders, especially the minority ones

Posted by RKT999 > 2020-04-17 15:13 | Report Abuse

IMO, Leno and Philips are very kind to provide the other side of the bigger picture in the sense that there is much more than meeting the eyes in investment. For the case of Insas, other than Inari, there isn't really much track record that proven Insas's core ability to invest for more returns. In another word, Insas can have a lot of cash in the bank account. How much so the shrewd investors will value this cash and the future cash flow generation is another equation and it is not hard to see why the share price is depressed.

1. other than inari, other investments seemed to be value destruction
2. share dilution here and there
3. i dont know, maybe management's reputation in the market

Posted by RKT999 > 2020-04-17 15:15 | Report Abuse

everyone keep shouting at the board to give dividend..
but did anyone think about whether that action rhymes with what the company is first set out to do.

it is an investment holding after all..

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 15:23 | Report Abuse

Then the board should spin off inari and each of us will have one Insas share and one inari share to do as we think fit

At the moment there is value destruction as 1 plus 1 is not even I - let alone 2 or the proverbial 3

Posted by randytankt > 2020-04-17 15:28 | Report Abuse

Kctai

Strategically, its not a good thing for insas hhaa.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 18:57 | Report Abuse

Insas owns about 620m inari shares so each of us owns about 0.9 inari share

The value destruction per share is therefore as follows

X + 0.9 (1.40) = 0.60

X = 0.66 negative

We are not even getting 1 sen for the rest of Insas!

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 20:45 | Report Abuse

Kctai3007, let me put it this way.

Imagine if INSAS was an investment holding company similar to Berkshire and it has just bought over Nebraska furniture Mart and See's candy. What you are asking for is for them to sell it give away their profit center or dividends, and give it to you. Why?

Their business model is supposed to be to use cash generated from dividends and business earnings to buy more businesses or stocks that generate earnings for them to grow further.

That is their business model. They are not a factory or manufacturing where they can sell assets to give out as dividends to shareholders.

What you are asking for is akin to asking a bank to give away their money which they use for business and give it to shareholders. That's silly.

Your job is not to ask for such things. As an investor, your job to is to analyze their ability to take dividend and shares sales from INARI and use it to buy shares and businesses that go up and generate earnings over time.

If you think they are doing a good job in using equity to generate a bigger return, then invest in INSAS. If they are not doing a good job in managing capital efficiently, then don't invest in INSAS. That is the guaranteed way of being a long term investor in Bursa.

And if you noticed why the share price has not been doing well for the last 5 years? The answer that becomes crystal clear. If you were a money manager, fund manager etc managing 1.7 billion in assets, how much bacon should you be bringing home? If you can only generate 80 million per year on 1.7 billion assets(4.7%), you might as well put money in epf(6.3%), buy government bonds, buy yinson debt(7.85% perpetual) and get better returns.

That is how you should go about thinking about investing. Think of it like buying a business, not pieces of paper.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 21:00 | Report Abuse

INSAS is not for amateur ... Amateur should go else where. Baru beli insas for couple of months onli already cry like babi ... MUAHAHAHAHAHAH ... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Philip, leno support u to bring this amateur to your counter. Chiayiu Philip ... chia yiu Philip .. u can do it. Dun give up.

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 21:05 | Report Abuse

Let me tell you a true story. This is a story about a bitter, sad man who thought he was a brilliant investor and found a wise teacher. He decided to follow archaic thinking and simpleminded accounting methods without understanding the business and real life economics:

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/koonyewyinblog/2015-12-30-story88909-Why_Am_I_Buying_Xingquan_Koon_Yew_Yin.jsp

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/koonyewyinblog/2017-09-05-story131574-Is_Xingquan_a_Good_Bet_Koon_Yew_Yin.jsp


LIST OF TOP 30 HOLDERS OF XINGUAN AS AT 30 SEPTEMBER 2016 No. Name Holdings %

13 LEE SOON SHENG 3,160,000 0.65

It's amazing to see that in 2016, sslee has spent rm2 million investing in xingquan, using exactly the same method of investment, cigar butt investing. Buy high NTA companies for a song. He has definitely lost a huge part of the wealth that he worked so hard for, believing that Bursa works the same way as NYSE. His bitterness and pride and ego, has caused him to invest the balance of his hard work into INSAS, with very little to show for it through the years.

High nta, low roe.

This is a true story. Learn from the mistakes of others ( including myself), and understand the difference between luck and Prudence, hard work and simplemindedness, Pride versus confidence.

Then you will start to learn how to invest as if you can only buy 10 stocks through your life.

>>>>>>>>>

People can tell beautiful story but the quantitative figure cannot lies:
Tell me is picking a winner: a science, an art, a skill, pure luck or act of god?
And why all IR analyst and EPF support QL at PE50? What is QL competitor CP Thailand PE?

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/fin/4006.jsp?type=last10fy
Pity Orient with good dividend but
31/12/2012. EPS 32.34 cents, DPS: 8 cents, Price: RM8.70, PE: 26.9, Net worth: RM 4,596,655,000
31/12/2019. EPS 56.50cents, DPS: 40 cents, Price: RM 6.55, PE: 11.59 Net worth: RM 6,666,968,000

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 21:30 | Report Abuse

The fact of the matter is: everyone wants to be a contrarian. The guy who picks the stocks no one wants, and it turns into a gem and they can say wow I am brilliant. I am the man!

But investing is not a game and it is not about pride. It is about picking stocks very carefully.

There is a reason why everyone respects the successful contrarian. It is because there are so few of them. Most of the time, when someone picks a bad stock, it never materializes into a gem, and they end up losing their shirt.

In the edge of the internet, finding arbitrage opportunities is like finding water in the desert.

Most of the time, stocks remain undervalued for a reason.

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 21:50 | Report Abuse

But Leno does have a point. The RPS payout which carries a coupon rate of 4 cent per share pa and redeemable over 5 years at rm1, which dropped to 80 cents at one point (5% Dy) an d sweetened with 2 free warrants.

A wonderful deal. 4 cents dividend with 2 free warrants kicked in( priced at 25 cents each), a wonderful way of getting free money out of INSAS. And if any problems occur I would be paid first before shareholders, holding preferred shares.

With these conditions and a lot of patience, I myself would have been enticed with a virtual 10% dividend ( buy rm1 sell warrants for 50 cents collect yearly dividend),

Except for the fact that they didn't need to do the RPS when they had ample money, didn't need to dilute share with warrants when they had ample cash, and didn't to buy vigcash, and other startups with that money.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 21:51 | Report Abuse

Philip

Your points are noted

We should therefore ask the directors why they are generating a measly 4.7%!

You say Insas is an investment holding company but one reason why the return is so low is because there is too much cash locked up in non-core activities such as investment in overseas quoted shares, which appears to be mere share dabbling

If you think Insas shouldn’t distribute the inari shares, it should alternatively return the excess cash as dividends because they are not using it in any meaningful way to create additional value

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 21:54 | Report Abuse

Doing those actions back then which hurt the company gave me many red signals which made me decide this company and management was not the company for me.

The local investing world from EPF, to kwsp, to majority of private funds and mutual funds found the same bells ringing and decided to stay away as well.

And so we stand today.

Luck? Greed? Insight? All I know is to find companies that treat shareholders as if they were partners in the same journey.

Those who have different standards and act differently to minority shareholders needs should be avoided at all costs.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 22:08 | Report Abuse

Philip

If I may ask, why are you in the forum if you are not a shareholder?

Posted by Cheah5555 > 2020-04-17 22:09 | Report Abuse

Insas value is much higher than its current share price,but unfortunately the fundamentals could not reflected or realisable for many many years. It would be quite a sad story that if somebody holding the shares for many years but not making capital gain or even making paper loss but seeing many other counters with poorer fundamentals having better price performance. It is really a dillema for existing shareholders whether to hold on the shares as the company 's market price track record is as such that the formula is not 1+1=2. This is one of the reality in klse, n who know the dire hard fans of Insas will be rewarded handsomely one day if holding on perhaps some miracle / breaktrough happen...

Posted by PN2020 > 2020-04-17 22:16 | Report Abuse

Forget Insas，wasting time，money and energy.No matter what，its share price would go north，chinaman run type of managemment.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-17 22:21 | Report Abuse

Cheah5555

As I said before, our fate lies with DS Thong

Just a simple 10 sen special cash dividend will move the share price back to RM1 levels

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 22:26 | Report Abuse

sell before too late ... later insas drop to 10 sen and oriental shoot up to RM 10 ... u will be sorri for mani life times .. u wan to believe sslee the xin quan master of disaster ? Even leno also dun believe wat he write ... u no see leno everi day hentam sslee aaa ? MUAHAHAHAHAHAH ... it could be one in the life time to make millions from oriental lor .... u wan to miss the boat ... are u sure ? really really sure ?

Posted by Philip ( Random Walk Theorist) > 2020-04-17 22:28 | Report Abuse

You are right. Since this is a shareholder only forum( I apologize as I did not realize this fact), then I will stop posting.

>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Philip

If I may ask, why are you in the forum if you are not a shareholder?
17/04/2020 10:08 PM

Posted by Cheah5555 > 2020-04-17 22:39 | Report Abuse

Kctai3007, for me i will rather decide my own fate insteads of rely on the ed to decide, i dont want to waste another 3-5 years waiting for the uncertainty!

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 22:42 | Report Abuse

philip say he did not realize this fact ... u believe aar? anyone believe ?
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... basically philip is telling u are stupid lah ....
Isn't it philip ... no need to shy shy ... just say it straight.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 23:08 | Report Abuse

Haha Kctai3007,
Philip is your guardian angel send by god to warn everyone in Insas forum that Insas core business is helping people buy and sell stocks, so it is easy for Insas to game the system by setting the accounting up so that it ALWAYS looks nice on paper. Insas is exactly the Malaysia twin brother of Red Chip company Xingquan where this Sslee old fool (lose 2 million) did not learnt his hard lesson of fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me and trying to mislead everyone in Insas forum.

So please listen to Philip advice sell Insas now and buy whatever Philip recommends

Thank you
PS: I am still alive and kicking after losing 2 million in Xingquan, still happily invest million in Insas and few more million in FD. What a blessing and wonderful life. And yes I deserved to be hetam by the great and all knowing leno.

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 23:15 | Report Abuse

i tell u ... u go agm dun waste time tok kok ... just ask BOD what they plan to invest, acquire and buy. Just shut up and listen. Do not argue ... LEARN from them, how they value company, what is their strategy, what is the opportunity, where and when. Share price is not their business. Their business is investing. If u ask these ... i tell u, they will be so HAPPY to share their valuable view. Ada faham ?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 23:18 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 23:18 | Report Abuse

Haha,
Yes Madam. Loud and clear

Posted by leno > 2020-04-17 23:22 | Report Abuse

i3lurker ... no need to write long long ... we see one fellow crawl on 4 legs into insas forum BEGGING ppl to buy oriental ... we already know .... oriental shareholder are all kaput liaw. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ...

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 23:26 | Report Abuse

ok sorry Leno

:)

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-04-17 23:33 | Report Abuse

scared of losing money.... so invest in Xi.ngguan and Insas and lost a lot of money....... classic

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-04-17 23:35 | Report Abuse

people way Scib, Kpower and minetech, all speculative counters and make a lot of money.... then how?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-04-17 23:36 | Report Abuse

first case scared scared lost money. second case simply wag make money... how?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-17 23:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-17 23:47 | Report Abuse

hahahaha qqq3,
once upon a time stockmanmy dream of driving a Rolls-Royce and own a private yacht so he come out with his brilliant idea of investment base on X factor. (Koon factor when super-investor Koon was still a force in i3 and now Karim factor)

Due to his greed he all in, chase high and got himself trap in Kpower and Scib and admitted all his 2 year hardworking gone with the wind.

But anyhow I think Kpower and SCIB will make a comeback and I wish him luck.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-18 00:10 | Report Abuse

haha polycrab,
He do not ride in a bullock cart but travel in style with a second hand Merida bike (German engineered mountain bike)

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-04-18 00:22 | Report Abuse

wah
I had no idea what a Merida is
no interest
anything German is good though.
The reason is because any European steel is purer due to higher energy input content.
Its the impurities that makes steel rust.