Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-28 17:56 | Report Abuse

Have u guys ever wonder b4 London came into icap, icap was trading at premium since the day it was listed until 2008/2009, probably due to the global financial crisis.

Isn't it very puzzling after London came in, icap continued to be trading at discount and widening despite London continued their buying spree. Now London bought over 20% but ICAP is still at discount?

So, wld share buyback work? FYI Bursa only allow 10%.

Logically speaking, if there is buying demand, share price should up, so, London supporters, care to explain??

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 18:01 | Report Abuse

DON BE STUPID LOH.!!....ICAP IS DOING WELL UPTO 2012 MAH, TTB WAS INVESTING WELL THE MONIES IN EQUITY THUS IT TRADE AT PREMIUM LOH....AFTER THAT TTB CHICKEN OUT PUT ALL INVESTOR MONIES IN FD TO ENSURE HE GET A FAT MANAGEMENT FEES, THUS ICAP TRADE AT A HUGE DISCOUNT LOH...!!

Posted by jeydan89 > Oct 28, 2019 5:56 PM | Report Abuse

Have u guys ever wonder b4 London came into icap, icap was trading at premium since the day it was listed until 2008/2009, probably due to the global financial crisis.

Isn't it very puzzling after London came in, icap continued to be trading at discount and widening despite London continued their buying spree. Now London bought over 20% but ICAP is still at discount?

So, wld share buyback work? FYI Bursa only allow 10%.

Logically speaking, if there is buying demand, share price should up, so, London supporters, care to explain??

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 18:06 | Report Abuse

YES IT WILL WORK LOH....!!

IF U JUST COMMIT RM 30M TO BUY BACK U ALREADY MAKE RM 9M PROFIT FOR ICAP HOLDERS , OF COURSE THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE TO TTB BCOS, THIS WILL REDUCE HIS MANAGEMENT FEES LOH...!!

THIS TTB IS SELFISH LOH, WHAT IS THERE LOSING SAY RM 300K MANAGEMENT FEES BUT ICAP SHAREHOLDER ON THE WHOLE GAIN RM 9M LEH ??

So, wld share buyback work? FYI Bursa only allow 10%.

Logically speaking, if there is buying demand, share price should up, so, London supporters, care to explain??

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 20:36 | Report Abuse

"Logically speaking, if there is buying demand, share price should up, so, London supporters, care to explain?? "

The price no up bcos no got buying demand.

No got buying demand bcos of the half past six performance by ICap.

Conclusion : We shall give a game over to ICap next yr.

Posted by Quincy > 2019-10-29 09:02 | Report Abuse

@3iii well said, something to think deeply about @ahbah

3iii: My reply to ahbah the Great

Should icap.biz fund be disbanded or to be renewed?

Well, as an initial shareholder of icap.biz berhad, I have also added more shares over the years. I am riding on significant gains in this stock and my opinion is of course, biased by my experience.

Each investor will have different experiences and their opinion of this stock will accordingly be influenced by their personal experiences (recency bias). Also, the investment objective, risk tolerance and time horizon for each investor is different. Not surprisingly, there will be different opinions.

I am invested for the long term aiming to build wealth over the long term through long term compounding. I will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM for my own selfish reasons.

I am also of the opinion that the majority of the shareholders in icap.biz berhad will vote to extend the tenure of the fund. ttb has cultivated these investors who share his philosophy and these investors have remained loyal to ttb so far. It would be difficult for the outcome to be otherwise.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-29 11:00 | Report Abuse

"The other things, after 5 years of TTB not finding any significant investment in equity there is doubt that TTB has lost his investment touch and worse the earlier years good success of icap performance is due to one time fluke of TTB or luck and will be never ever repeated again loh..!!"

maybe also got lost his investment calibre for the last few years ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-29 11:22 | Report Abuse

"I am invested for the long term aiming to build wealth over the long term through long term compounding. I will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM for my own selfish reasons."

Is ICap the ONLY counter in our mkt able to build wealth over the long term for us ?

There is NO / a group of counters in our mkt able to build wealth over the long term for us ?

There will be no long term investment through long term compounding in our mkt for us if ICap tenure is not renewed ?

No counter exits in our mkt can replace ICap for our long term investment ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-29 17:59 | Report Abuse

Our debate is long drawn loh....to me a company like icap putting almost all their monies in to fixed deposits and achieving only 1% pa compound return over the latest 5 yrs is not acceptable and very poor performance loh..!!

No matter how good icap is in the past, the latest 5 yrs poor performance is a disaster and shameful loh...!!

This is due to TTB of selfish interest & attitude of protecting his management fees and disregarding his investor by not doing his job properly for the past 5 long years loh...!!

It is a great shame, thats why we need to support London in the coming votes next year to dissolve Icap, that is the only solution to end the suffering of icap investors loh...!!

If U R an icap investors, it is imperative u vote for dissolution, bcos if u extend icap 10 to 15 yrs more, they is nothing there to prevent TTB from keep putting your all monies in fd to earn his management fees.

The other things, after 5 years of TTB not finding any significant investment in equity there is doubt that TTB has lost his investment touch and worse the earlier years good success of icap performance is due to one time fluke of TTB or luck and will be never ever repeated again loh..!!

TO END ICAP with hapiness, IT IS BEST, WE VOTE TO CLOSE IT DOWN NEXT YEAR AT LEAST WE EARN A 1 TIME GAIN OF 30% LOH...!!

PLEASE SUPPORT LONDON LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-29 18:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-29 18:08 | Report Abuse

"I am invested for the long term aiming to build wealth over the long term through long term compounding. I will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM for my own selfish reasons."

Sifu 3iii will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM BASED ON HIS OWN SELFISH REASONS ONLY - NOT BASED ON PROTECTING THE POOR / NOVICE / RETAIL INVESTORS' INTEREST LIKE ahbah.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-29 18:12 | Report Abuse

What can u expect from 3iii leh ??

He is usually dishonest & selfish loh....!!

Posted by ahbah > Oct 29, 2019 6:08 PM | Report Abuse

"I am invested for the long term aiming to build wealth over the long term through long term compounding. I will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM for my own selfish reasons."

Sifu 3iii will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM BASED ON HIS OWN SELFISH REASONS ONLY - NOT BASED ON PROTECTING THE POOR / NOVICE / RETAIL INVESTORS' INTEREST LIKE ahbah.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-29 18:16 | Report Abuse

Is sifu 3iii in ttb n co n got a good bite at the annual bountiful n wholesome largesse of ICap ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-29 22:04 | Report Abuse

As i Capital has explained many times before,
Malaysia faces a fluid and uncertain political landscape for the next 5 to 10
years, even after the 2018 general election. We are now even more convinced that
this period will be a difficult but crucial phase for Malaysia as she reaches a
point of no return. i Capital is retaining its long-term outlook as highly
uncertain."

"she reaches a point of no return." .... the hantu as seen by I Capital


Malaysia’s scores in the 2020 Ease of Doing Business Index rose by 0.2 point, allowing the country to climb three places to 12th in 2020 from 15th in 2019. This is Malaysia’s best ranking since 2015. .... the business heaven created by our Ah Eng.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-30 00:47 | Report Abuse

puzzling to see ppl unable to there is arbitrage opportunity within a year winding up icap. use 50% gain within a year and buy something better. hello. london john came in for fun? is their money also.

even more puzzling to see ppl unable to notice so apparently there are better managers out there as per examples i given. as per charlie munger preached--- we must be willing to destroy our most precious/idolized idea constantly to outgrow ourselves. no??? wonder that why 3iii remains a dinosaur.

remember parkson? guarantee 10years down the road if they still maintain the same biz model. those undervalued assets there becomes nil. almost. ask ttb and see. maybe he play philosophical with you all la. Dao and Drink from Sources? lolx. before somebody drank your FD interest.

good night and bountiful return to the aware.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 08:14 | Report Abuse

This forum makes me laugh lol. people try to convince abah about the good points of this company he mati mati just look at the bad side. Then once he doesn't know how to come back with good points he'll say something cute like I'm a novice investor, I'm poor and come from kampung. Damn cute if you're still a child if you want to act dumb, not when you're investing.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 08:14 | Report Abuse

On the other hand stockraider is not acting dumb, he's actually retarded. His arguments are either something like "REMEMBER THERE ARE NOTHING TO STOP TTB , TO PUT MOST OF ICAP INVESTABLE MONIES IN FIXED DEPOSITS MONIES FOR THE NEXT 10 TO 15 YRS PERIOD ONCE THE FUND LIFE IS EXTENDED LOH..." or "ON THE OTHER HAND LONDON HAS MANY MANY SUPPORTER TOO, ESPECIALLY DISGRUNTLE SHAREHOLDERS WHO BOUGHT ICAP FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS MAH..!!" or "AFTER THAT TTB CHICKEN OUT PUT ALL INVESTOR MONIES IN FD TO ENSURE HE GET A FAT MANAGEMENT FEES, THUS ICAP TRADE AT A HUGE DISCOUNT LOH...!!" or "THERE ARE PLENTY MORE FUND MANAGERS, FUNDS AND CLOSE END FUND AVAILABLE TO CHOSE FROM, WHO HAS BETTER PERFORMANCE FOR PAST 5 YRS LOH....!!" Then if he cannot convince people he call people sohai. Like a broken radio keep repeating dumb shit over time. stockraider if you don't know the company don't talk cock. you've been here for weeks liao still don't understand english ka? after 12999 posts still none the wiser. you're the reason why this forum is rotting.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 08:20 | Report Abuse

i think cheoky provides a good example when he introduced the Areca equityTRUST Fund. But it has entry charge of up to 3% of investment amount, 1.9% per annum of NAV management fee and 0.08% per annum of trustee fee. if you know when to enter the trust then good for you lo. if not then your returns become less or even negative because of the fees.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 09:04 | Report Abuse

FlyHight123, are U in ttb n co ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 10:24 | Report Abuse

U may find it puzzling but the fact is what raider says is very true loh....!!

1. 5 yrs track record of mediocre only 1% compound return pa.
2. TTB for past 5 yrs put all monies in fd to protect his fat management fees resulted in very poor return to icap compare to the management fees.
3. TTB success previously is possible due to fluke or could be TTB may have lost his equity investment skills loh...!!
4. If u renew this mediocre TTB fund manager, nothing to stop TTB to put all monies in FD for next 10 to 15 yrs again to protect his selfish fat management fees loh...!!
5. With LONDON in the picture..the year of vote 2020...is the best time to dissolve ICAP at least we get back our money with a one time 30% gain loh...!! Icap deserve to be liquidated bcos of poor performance loh..!
If u do not support LONDON to bungkus icap share price may fall further to below Rm 1.75 and all investor will suffer further for the next 10 to 15 years loh...!!

THE ABOVE ARE VERY CRITICAL POINTS, ALL INVESTORS TO CONSIDER FOR 2020 VOTES, WHETHER THEY SHOULD RENEW ICAP TERM FOR ANOTHER 10 TO 15 YEARS?. I SUGGEST DO IT VOTE FOR DISSOLUTION, TOGETHER WITH LONDON BCOS U MAY NEVER GET ANOTHER WHITE KNIGHT LIKE LONDON TO FIGHT TOGETHER WITH U IN THE FUTURE AND THAT MEANS ANOTHER 10 TO 15 YRS IS ANOTHER LONG TIME TO WAIT LOH..!!

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 11:17 | Report Abuse

to answer your question ahbah, nope I'm not. i thought that cheoky's points are valid. Areca equityTRUST Fund has quite a good track record. Not say very exceptional compared to icap but I thought it was still not bad can consider. i didn't mention this but i also thought stkstudent raised some very good questions previously. quite valid i approve. my point is you need to ask the correct questions and make correct claims.

not like stockraider here. he don't know what he's talking about. he ate garbage during meals and then bullshit to you in this forum

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-30 11:28 | Report Abuse

ahbah, I thought your identity has already been exposed, why are you still acting here ?

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-30 11:32 | Report Abuse

when comparing performance, we need to compare apple with apple.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 12:09 | Report Abuse

Agree...Icap 5 yrs performance very bad only 1% pa, if u put in Fd on your own instead of thru ICAP....u get 3 to 4% pa return much higher for the past 5 yrs loh...!!

Placing fd very easy, vegetable seller ahfah also know how to do....no need TTB putting FD for 5 yrs loh...!!

Posted by ahhuat56 > Oct 30, 2019 11:32 AM | Report Abuse

when comparing performance, we need to compare apple with apple.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 12:17 | Report Abuse

FlyHigh123, Thanks for your reply. In your opinion, is there any stock or a group of stocks better than ICap in our mkt ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 12:21 | Report Abuse

ahhuat56, I am only a novice investor n hope U can share your precious info with me.

What stock can be compared with ICap when comparing apple with apple ?

Posted by Vc Looi > 2019-10-30 12:32 | Report Abuse

why need to compare apple with apple as its only close end fund in bursa, due to lagging poor performance and continuous discount to nav also discourage bursa approve neqw fund to be listed.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 12:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 13:21 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 13:33 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 13:38 | Report Abuse

Closed-end fund often trades at a discount inviting predators that are after short-term quick gains, rather than long-term bigger gains.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 13:38 | Report Abuse

Closed-ended funds can be used
-to build out a portfolio or
- add specific components like international exposure.

Patient value investors seek not only a good price (meaning a good discount), but also a fund with solid long-term potential.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-30 13:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-30 14:04 | Report Abuse

5years underperforming vs my figureless ETF, other equity funds enough to trigger questioning perhaps this fund manager is not gear up to market investment condition. The worst is no humility to admission of poor performance due to own internal weakness but happily to attribute poor performance due to inherently poor country condition. The gist is able to outperform greatly under risk adjusted condition even under such condition. Proven him can't.

Even market itself discounted heavily on icap. That speaks volume of the fund manager quality. Smart money like London saw artibrage opportunity, this is a rational move. Holders should think twice whether this fund manager possess the attributes to bring your investment to greater height in next 10years. All this is probability decision. Make the best decision.
Watch pangolin fund manager, James inveterview. You can immediately sense his pragmatic thinking and no bullshit.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 14:59 | Report Abuse

Ask yourself TTM got integrity or not ??

Putting FD for 5 yrs generating compound return at 1% pa, while ensuring earning fat management fees for himself while icap investors get nothing loh.....!!

Posted by 3iii > Oct 30, 2019 1:42 PM | Report Abuse

Warren Buffett has written on integrity. He would like his managers to have integrity, intelligence and lots of energy. Above all, integrity. Without integrity, these traits of intelligence and energy in the manager will work against the interest of the owner.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 15:07 | Report Abuse

A good closed end fund trade at a premium n not at a discount loh...!!

The 1st 5 yrs Icap, trade at a premium, partly due to fluke initial good performance bcos public thougt TTB good performance can sustained loh...!!

To their huge disappointment, TTB subsequently put their investable in FD for 5 long years loh....!!

When disappointment started ICAP trade at a huge discount loh...!!

Posted by 3iii > Oct 30, 2019 1:38 PM | Report Abuse

Closed-end fund often trades at a discount inviting predators that are after short-term quick gains, rather than long-term bigger gains.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-30 15:46 | Report Abuse

Hey stocktraitor, where did you get the "putting FD for 5 yrs generating compound return at 1% pa" figure from ?

Hey stocktraitor, where did you get the "TTB subsequently put their investable in FD for 5 long years loh" data from ?

How do I verify your wrong facts ?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-30 16:01 | Report Abuse

ya, always got the wrong facts, then when being questioned, put the blame on others...didn't even bother to verify the facts himself, worse still, repeat again and again.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 16:12 | Report Abuse

ahbah i think you're asking the wrong question. the truth of the matter is that you could always find a period in time where some stocks or group of stocks would do better than icap. the question that the supporters emphasized was whether you believe in investing long term in the company like 3iii. once you put your money into icap you would leave it there for months to years. Of cuz don't buy at a time of excess optimism la. So the choice is whether you believe in what icap is saying. Go read their newsletter here ( https://www.icapital.biz/newsletter/home ) will give you an idea what they think. but i would say if you don't have a lot of money to put away and you're thinking of short to medium term then don't invest lo. the amount of money you have and investment horizon matter also. In fact i would tell you don't buy if you don't satisfy the 2 conditions. I also didn't invest in this company lol. I just keep track of it only. but I like what they are saying and go to their AGM maybe you'll learn something

Posted by ahbah > Oct 30, 2019 12:17 PM | Report Abuse

FlyHigh123, Thanks for your reply. In your opinion, is there any stock or a group of stocks better than ICap in our mkt ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 16:19 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 16:21 | Report Abuse

stocktraitor in order to break commenting 13k posts, he spam his comments here lol.

tbh cheoky you can feel any way about any people want la. people put on a suit and talk cock everyone can believe. performance matters, which in this case i think pangolin does a good job as well. but like i said even if the fund's performance is high the other fees will reduce your returns. think carefully when to invest also. ttb lansi and overconfident liao you don't want to invest just means that you are blinded by your dislike towards him rather than judging his fund performance. it's either whether you believe in the strategy of the fund or not only

Posted by cheoky > Oct 30, 2019 2:04 PM | Report Abuse

5years underperforming vs my figureless ETF, other equity funds enough to trigger questioning perhaps this fund manager is not gear up to market investment condition. The worst is no humility to admission of poor performance due to own internal weakness but happily to attribute poor performance due to inherently poor country condition. The gist is able to outperform greatly under risk adjusted condition even under such condition. Proven him can't.

Even market itself discounted heavily on icap. That speaks volume of the fund manager quality. Smart money like London saw artibrage opportunity, this is a rational move. Holders should think twice whether this fund manager possess the attributes to bring your investment to greater height in next 10years. All this is probability decision. Make the best decision.
Watch pangolin fund manager, James inveterview. You can immediately sense his pragmatic thinking and no bullshit.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 16:21 | Report Abuse

"why need to compare apple with apple as its only close end fund in bursa, due to lagging poor performance and continuous discount to nav also discourage bursa approve neqw fund to be listed."

Thanks Vc Looi, I agree with U.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 16:28 | Report Abuse

>>>>
cheoky puzzling to see ppl unable to there is arbitrage opportunity within a year winding up icap. use 50% gain within a year and buy something better. hello. london john came in for fun? is their money also.
>>>>

3iii, U are a sifu. Please show U can buy something better n U can survive well without relying on ttb n co. to do for U. Thanks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 16:36 | Report Abuse

"Is he still good as a fund manager for the next 10 years? "

I think he will work as a FD manager only for the next 10 years bcos he oredi said the long term outlook as highly uncertain.

All including novice investors know how to work as FD manager lah.

Some sifu may not know how to do so ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-30 16:40 | Report Abuse

Correctloh...if u buy icap bcos u think....TTB can seek alpha meaning that he can select good company to invest no matter how the stock market react loh...!!

But TTB...put your monies into fixed deposits...for 5 long yrs, bcos he want to safeguard his management fees, surely u as an icap investors really felt cheated loh...!!

To hell with TTB, join London to close icap this coming 2020 by voting icap closure loh...!!

Posted by ahbah > Oct 30, 2019 4:28 PM | Report Abuse

>>>>
cheoky puzzling to see ppl unable to there is arbitrage opportunity within a year winding up icap. use 50% gain within a year and buy something better. hello. london john came in for fun? is their money also.
>>>>

3iii, U are a sifu. Please show U can buy something better n U can survive well without relying on ttb n co. to do for U. Thanks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 16:44 | Report Abuse

"Smart money like London saw artibrage opportunity, this is a rational move."

I agree London is smart money n working out a rational move.

I am just a novice investor n of course will follow smart money like London to guide me.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 16:57 | Report Abuse

FlyHigh123, thanks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 17:14 | Report Abuse

"ttb did grow the NAV from RM 1 to RM 3.21 + 9sen paid dividends.
No complains from some of those who have been long term invested in this fund."

Great NAV ! Congratulations to ttb n co. London came, saw n their mouth salivate. Now London want to eat Rm 3.21. I also want a share of it !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 17:29 | Report Abuse

Hey stocktraitor, where did you get the "putting FD for 5 yrs generating compound return at 1% pa" figure from ?

Hey stocktraitor, where did you get the "TTB subsequently put their investable in FD for 5 long years loh" data from ?

How do I verify your wrong facts ?

Lai Meng put her money in a Milo tin ?

I no know where ttb put the money.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-30 17:42 | Report Abuse

Biohldg ... latest ttb's mkt darling ? Any taker ?

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-30 18:01 | Report Abuse

If I got time like you unemployed people I would surely argue gao gao one lol. Cannot argue liao talk about FD here FD there. ahbah you say thank you to me i want to first express my gratitude that you are respectful. but you are still wrong lol. like i said you asked the wrong questions. Where ttb put his money you can check the annual report. it's black and white there.

stockraider leh he don't know how to argue like normal people so he copy and paste FD. at least ahbah got some creativity lol. stockraider you pulled your facts out of your ass is it? why I don't know one?