Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-16 16:19 | Report Abuse

@mikekong55: noted what you said - thanks

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 16:20 | Report Abuse

IF you stand for a reason, be prepared to stand alone like a tree, and if you fall on the ground like a seed that grows back to fight again...

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-16 16:22 | Report Abuse

@vinvin: batu api is what we all try to learn .. to avoid (noises) :-)

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-16 16:23 | Report Abuse

@abdulhalim: terkena masak lemak cili api tambah perisa garam dan gula .. haha!

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-16 16:24 | Report Abuse

@abdulhalim: makin tua makin cantik .. gigit sikit .. sayang mau telan .. kikiki

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 16:25 | Report Abuse

pukulan tua nie lain sikit,,,simpan senjata,,,hahaha

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-16 16:26 | Report Abuse

@abdulhalim: pisang tua .. pisang keramat ... makin tua makin nyaman :-)

Posted by ksng0307 > 2013-11-16 16:28 | Report Abuse

pmc forum without ayamtua will be very dull. He is the one who cheers us up when things turned bad. Ayamtua bravo

Posted by davidkkw79 > 2013-11-16 16:28 | Report Abuse

How good are these TA people, there look down on PMC, but they still always show up in PMC forum, even some they should be on vacation, but they still very nicely to pop up and giving advise to people to sell off PMC. If these people has this kind of good spirit in doing bussiness, I definetely will invest with them. But they are not, these people just speculator here for their own certain interest and purpose.

Don't you think in malaysia are full of good people? They always shown up just advise us newbies don't play on fire. The reason is based on what? Based on these sifu said due to now market selling activity is not good, all almost based on their feeling. Not something really reliable. All are these kind of words, such as "selling activity", "invisible hand", "waves coming"... except for these, I didn't see others reliable or countable infomations.

I admit I am bad guy, for my personally, if I think some stock has been goreng up much, I wouldn't being so nice to advise them so they wouldn't be burned and heading to holland. Cause as I said, I m not a good guy, I wouldn't be so nice to advise people to stop. And 1 more thing is, I m not god as well, how do I know the stock will up or down in coming future? If I don't know, how dare or how smarter I am to be qualified to advise people. I even don't know you in this internet world, how nice or how good do you think I will be to advise you?

So far what I've seen so much people here, almost the people here are so nice and so great with their achievements. I hardly saw a one person said I am bad, I am selffish, I am mean, I am stupid. All are opposite and 装神弄鬼。

I untill this age, 34 years old, until these days just only realize the true meaning of 装神弄鬼... How smart are ours ancestor to create this word chinese word ! I should give my salute to ancestor.

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 16:43 | Report Abuse

I agree with you David, not everyone on this forum are good people. but the bad and the good things that make our own assessment. do not look far in any of the oceans, look around you, if your father did something bad you certainly can judge, follow the good things and avoid doing the opposite. we have common sense and knowledge, use to filter all views and criticisms. as investors we have our own right and we know which direction. our own profit and loss that determines it. do not act according to others .. set your heart and your goals.

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 16:50 | Report Abuse

Jangan dok usik ayam tua tu,,hihi,biaq dia berehat.haha

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 16:59 | Report Abuse

ifollow@ before investing I'm ready to face the possibility of profit and loss in my investments. I realize the 10 investors only one person gain. be sorry if the facts were wrong. I learn from mistakes, always seeking knowledge, to be a good investor. I do not follow other people before making a counter research that I want to invest. self-study and follow a hunch ... hihih

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 17:08 | Report Abuse

Alenac. I just came back from Jurong Point In SINGAPORE! Where you say that International Brands Like Swiss, European & Australian makes the Chocolate sales Very Competitive!

Since I go to Jurong Point Almost 4 days a week. I can testify here from Personal Experience And Observation. Just now I spoke to the lady in charge of chocolate section in NTUC EXTRA SUPERMARKET At Level 3, Jurong Point.

"How is the response to Tango 40gm chocolate bars?," I asked. She replied, " I have Ordered A Huge Stock of these Tango Bars. But They SELL SO FAST That Soon We Will Have To Order More Again."

Why are they selling so well? "Because at only 45 cents For A 40gm Tango bar, This is the Cheapest here. That is the reason".She replied

Among The Vast Array of So Many International Chocolate brands, TANGO IS THE UNDISPUTED CHAMPION! I FEEL SO HAPPY & ELATED!


GIVE ME A "5" !!!

Posted by Kelvin Tsai > 2013-11-16 17:11 | Report Abuse

Posted by davidkkw79 > Nov 16, 2013 03:44 PM | Report Abuse

Calvintaneng. I've a question here:
Do you know why PMC is only doing chocolate bar bussiness ?
Why NFI is not involving in doing chocolate powders (like Milo & Vico product)as well? Or selling other chocolate drinks product ?

Ya Davidkkw79 asked a very good, logical and realistic question ? PM Corp MUST come out with more food products beside chocolate bars etc, otherwise one wishes to see the share price like Dutch Lady or Nestle is just day dream only ? Beside, some one must press the management to change PM Corp name to Network Food Industry to reflect the actual business model ? No doubt the Tango and Tudo Gold chocolate is superior as compare to other branded products but if one goes around and ask, no one knows this premium chocolate product is produced by PM Corp ?

Posted by sklyte > 2013-11-16 17:14 | Report Abuse

Calvin,cheapest mean very small profit margin. Got 30per cent margin?

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 17:19 | Report Abuse

Banyak perkara yang tersurat disebalik yang tersirat.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 17:28 | Report Abuse

abdulhalim, coming thurday/friday you'll be the happiest man , one hand holding milo drink the other holding tudor gold bar with a broad smile on the face.have a striking pose then. enjoy your weekend with your love ones come back next week.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 17:28 | Report Abuse

Kelvin Tsai. NFI Also Has "TUDOR GOLD COCOA POWDER" I still have a 500gm Tin With Me. Only 30% left. I didn't see any around for some time.

According to NFI Management, they are watching Vico and Milo Sales. Actually Vico is the better chocolate drink because it has full cream milk powder whereas Milo has more palm oil.

When VICO first came out it eats into MILO Sales. But Vico made a mistake. It raised prices too early. So Milo fought back. In Giants Vico & Milo both priced at RM8.99. But Milo can Cut Price to as low as RM5.99 against Vico (RM8.99)

Mamee knew the danger. MAMEE Stays Competitive by keeping Mamee prices very low against Maggie mee. So MAMEE Succeeded Making Inroads into Nestle's Maggie Market.

For NFI, the Champion of the hour is "TANGO". When Warren Buffet bought the unexciting Wrigley Chewing Gum, I wondered if he made a mistake. But when I visited Petrol Station shops, I saw Wrigley Chew Gum Bars on Display near the cashier's desk.

Wrigley chewing gum dominates the world. So small bars of Tango doesn't matter - IF WE CAN SELL TO ALL 7 BILLION PEOPLE - NFI SHOULD DO WELL.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 17:32 | Report Abuse

Yes sklyte, chocolate gross profit is 30% to 50%. Study Nestle's balance sheet to see gross profit. NFI also 30% because we don't use inferior ingredients like nestle's kit kat.

Posted by Tan Siew Ting > 2013-11-16 17:38 | Report Abuse

The only way now is buying more to average the holdings below 30 cts /share. Made the mistake earlier coz bought at 35 cts . Need to buy at least another 60k units to scale down the price . since Calvin n Ayam tua r so confident in NFI in producing premier chocolates n likely another Dutch Lady in the making . Thus investing long term in this counter will be a good n logical choice. Advice too! Trade within one's means shall be the answer.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 17:41 | Report Abuse

In investing, there are a number of layers of thinking. If one can go to higher level, the probability of making money is higher.

Take for example PMCorp. Those in ground floor know nothing about it as an investment. They buy and sell by just listening to rumours and hearsay. They know nothing about the business, its moat and its performance. Looking at the stock screen every minute. Buy in euphoria and sell in panic. And most people at this level are the losers. Sadly most people are in this level.

One can go to the next level, level one. When hear about this stock is a good investment, go find out why others say so. He can go read about its business and financial performance; analyse what is its value base on its present earnings,and/or its net asset value, Graham net net for example like what I did. Then decide if the market price is worth buying or not. But that is only level 1.

The next level is what calvin has been doing. He knows about PMCorp so well and he believes in its future, a great future. He does hell a lot of scuttle butting about the company and its products, even involves in its display in supermarket, for free. Talk to the management and the staff and get a lot of information which others don't have. Know how well the products are sold. Know how much undervalued assets it has etc. This is a high level, level 2.

I say there is a third level, level 3. In Level 3, one has to work out, make good projections on its sales and profit for the next say 10 years, and from there workout its cash flows and discount back to the present value, and see how much that cash flow worth per share, and compare with the share price now. Then he can see clearly if the value worth its present market.

No matter how good a company is; no matter how well it sells its products; no matter how much money it makes or will make, buying that company without knowing its true value, value of its future cash flow discounted back to present, and compare with its market price now if it is worth buying, is not a formula of success in investing.

I am not talking about trading here.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 17:51 | Report Abuse

Just received a phone call from Ah Lek. Ah Lek was the one who bought Dutch Lady. He had 3 lots of Dutch Lady which unfortunately he let go around RM4.50. He regretted his mistake ever since. Now, he has 100,000 shares of PM Corp.

People were telling him. "PM Corp - Goreng stock. Game over?" He called to check up on PM Corp since people around him try to shake his confidence. His first 50,000 shares bought at 15 cents. I didn't ask him how much he bought his 2nd 50,000 shares.

I assured him that 2 more good news will be announced soon. Good 3rd quarterly result and Cash Pay Out, So from the fear that was caused by naysayers around him - he received confidence to buy another 100,000 shares more. To make up for his Big Mistake of selling out Dutch Lady at RM4.50 (Now A Whopping RM47.00.) He is told that PM Corp has similarity like Dutch Lady.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 17:52 | Report Abuse

aiya kcchong, thought you'll give me some good and growth counters to consider buying 2014. disappointed again.

Posted by xxxvalue > 2013-11-16 17:58 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz..u r wise man. Totally agree with u. In the end a business need to make money ..cash, the more the better....else it will fold up sooner or later. It can remain afloat for awhile by selling assets, issue more shares etc but this will not last...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 18:04 | Report Abuse

mikekong55, by looking at your name, I guess you must have been in the market for a long time. Are you born in 1955?

Thanks for your kind words on me. Now my call on Datasonic was a fluke shot. I knew more or less Datasonic is doing well and will be doing well, but not the shot up of its price like that. It was a shock to me.

I am not the one who can give stock tips for anybody to make big money in short time. Not me. I am not good in predicting future stock price. I am a value investor, and value investing takes time to fruition, years. The return of value investors is in 12%-15% per year. He would be happy with that kind of return as it beats the broad market. Once a while he may hit jackpot and earn 100%, 200%, but that is for just one or two stocks, once in a blue moon.

With your market and trading experience, you would do better than me in that sense.

Good luck.

Posted by MyTo > 2013-11-16 18:05 | Report Abuse

Hey Calvin, I seen you promoted PMcorp and I really do interesting for this stock, it's a good price(0.265) for buy in? I'm new in i3investor.

Posted by sklyte > 2013-11-16 18:05 | Report Abuse

Hi Kcchongnz, thanks so much! This forum Calvin provide most of level2 info. It would be nice to have u to kindly provide the level 3 info bcos most of us don't know how to work it out. Thanks.

Posted by abdulhalim > 2013-11-16 18:10 | Report Abuse

Posted by mikekong55 > Nov 16, 2013 05:28 PM | Report Abuse

abdulhalim, coming thurday/friday you'll be the happiest man , one hand holding milo drink the other holding tudor gold bar with a broad smile on the face.have a striking pose then. enjoy your weekend with your love ones come back next week.

>>>> Together we will see later,, either move forward or backward., no matter what I have make a profit already ... acting on his own without seeing another person. I was holding.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 18:12 | Report Abuse

xxxvalue, my opinion is the business of PMCorp seems ok as it has a high gross margin, and it did make profit and generally has reasonable good cash flow. Look at the average of a few years. However, for the present moment, its business is very small. Hence its net profit is small because of the relatively high operating costs, due to the relatively low revenue.

If what calvin says is true about the Tudor chocolate and so good, and a number of forumers did agree with him after eating it, it may have a good future. PMCorp just needs to sell more, a higher asset turnover, then everything will follow suit. But I think it will take a long time for that to happen. I mean when you talk about 1.50 per share.

If the business does not grow, then you can forget about those prices mentioned. Yes, selling assets and make money won't last.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 18:12 | Report Abuse

Yes. kcchongnz. I heard that you stay in New Zealand. Could you please check out MUI Berhad's 6 Acres Land in West Hobart, Tasmania?

The address is 20, Kirby Court, West Hobart, Tasmania. 268,774 sq ft about 6.17 acres residential land. Book value is RM5.6 millions (About A$1.86 Millions) Last Valued in Year 1996 (17 years ago)

Thank you.

Posted by xxxvalue > 2013-11-16 18:29 | Report Abuse

Tq Kcchongnz. Just want to recheck wt u again, co made small net earnings past 2 yrs. But my calculation on owners earnings (cash) is -ive. I'm a value investor 2, we may not be looking at different thing, will be good we can share...knowledge. I can relate with u on the `few layers of thinking' as I read something similar in `The Art of Valuue Investing' by Heins Tilson.

Posted by sklyte > 2013-11-16 18:32 | Report Abuse

Hi Kcchongnz, I identify myself as level1 in your measuring scale. Have pick up some uli corp n epmb shares 2 year already. Long wait! Anyway lately uli corp has yeoman fund buying. Epmb is still a laggard. Have I made a mistake holding epmb? What you think? Thank you sir.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 18:33 | Report Abuse

kcchong, that was the year I was born. 15-20% profit very good already. very seldom chat here since register for many years. normally look at quality/blue chip stock to invest(buy beginning of year clear year end). pmcorp come across by chance when there said selling SINGLONG warehouse/land in singapore. their gain after disposal around RM24m to be factor into this Q3 result. kcchong it's alright,just for the asking for your recommendation. in actual fact, most of the counters I buy given by long time friend's ang kok heng of phillip securities and stephen soo of TA securities. heard of them? subscribe to TTB of icap,supermart and aberdeen.presently retired and learning the behaviour or character of stock market players.kcchong,can ask question if happen to see your big name in other forum that the counter I'm interested to invest.?anyway, nice knowing you and have a nice weekend with your love ones.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 18:36 | Report Abuse

I've been to tasmania. It's in australia

Posted by Ragha168 > 2013-11-16 18:37 | Report Abuse

Posted by mmaker > Nov 16, 2013 03:17 PM | Report Abuse

I can sense that this share is going to crash next few trading days
Monday if opening start drop, I suggest cut loss immediately !
Trust me, it's game over, very clearly few cats are in this game n some smart cats totally retreat from the game n looking for new playground.
I suggest Monday while waiting for sumatec to settle down we can try AT
I think AT is oversold and will rebounce sharply on Monday
Forget about holding for long term in Klse , 80% are goreng for short term only! to make money in bursa I only got one word for formers here! Ride on wave and getting down halfway !!!!!


mmaker, how do you confident on this "crash", how low it will go to. IF so, i will buy more

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 18:45 | Report Abuse

MyTo. At the present market sentiment especially monday is a day of heavy script delivery, anything can happen. Since there is both fear and great. Fear from those who succumb to rumour that PM Corp is a goreng counter may sell. While Value Investors who believe in PM Corp's future like me, will buy,

If you are day trading and a T+ 4 trader, there is no guarantee that you might make money. But since we believe after this bout of selling by fear & force selling - the uptrend should be intact. We are absolutely sure that PM Corp is Not a Goreng counter like TMS, Nova or Sersol.

I think our friend Kcchongnz has spoken what we also feel as NFI Future's direction. The business is good and getting better and better. Production & revenue Must Be Increased For Further Profits.

If you have a Long Term View like us, then this Monday opens a window of opportunity. Since Market closed on 26.5 cents. If you don't have any shares on hand. Buy a little at 26.5 cents. Say 30 lots.
Then average down every half cent: This is how:

Park at 26.5 cents 30 lots
26 cents 40 lots
25.5 cents 50 lots
25 cents 60 lots
24.5 cents 70 lots

This is my buying pattern. Sorry I don't have any extra money as I am fully invested. My Johor buddies may follow this plan. We buy more as the bargains get cheaper!

But since I am no good at prediction. Prices might also move upward due to 2 good expected news or downward due to fear and rumour. So do your own due diligence and invest carefully.

Best Regards,

Calvin Tan

Posted by Ragha168 > 2013-11-16 18:54 | Report Abuse

calvin, knowing you are experience on the stock quite couple years. I agree long-term investment will generate the wealth. However i am curious the main reason you hard-promote this share to everyone and dont you share with us as we know how good pmcorp since 20 Sep. The only worrying me is because some shareholder is want small fish to be swollen in this pond . Sorry if any offence to you

Posted by MG9231 > 2013-11-16 18:54 | Report Abuse

Kelvin, welcome back to this pmcorp forum n hope you will stir pmcorp to next highest level.
For coming Monday, pls don't worry too much.Pmcorp should be alright. Is is a good second liners. As KLCI around this level, Most people will focus for good second liners before this coming Chinese New Year.
further, proprty speculation were cap due to recent budget, where the liquidity in the market will flow to THE GOOD second liners! pmcorp is one of them.
Acoording to Kevin, 2 good catalyst for this stock will be coming, the stock should be quite safe.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 18:55 | Report Abuse

Sorry fellow investors. If you have shares in hand don't follow Mr. Market to sell on monday. We bought PM Corp at 25 cents 6 years ago based at Net Cash & assets. Today, there is so much Clarity in this Consumer laggard. Don't sell in fear and buy back in greed. So on Monday. Be strong.

The Wise Man says, " STRONG MEN RETAIN RICHES!"

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 18:57 | Report Abuse

mikekong55, you are of the same age as Ang Kok Heng. AKH and I graduated from MU in Engineering the same year in 1980. We used to have chap fun in Lucky Garden every lunch and dinner in those days. Those days chap fun is less than a ringgit. Time flies.

If you follow AKH, I won't think you will go wrong. You will earn a lot more than the broad market. AKH is a growth investor. His Phillip Capital fund in Malaysia is the top three funds. But bear in mind that past performance does not guarantee good future returns. But he is good and I believe he will continue to outperform most fund managers.

Like him, I do not invest in blue chips. I opine that you can't get good price from blue chip, and hence won't be able to get extra-ordinary return from them. Almost every fund owns blue chips hence they are probably fully value already.

Posted by MyTo > 2013-11-16 19:03 | Report Abuse

Thanks Calvin your explanation that clearly .

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 19:03 | Report Abuse

Thank You MG9231 for posting here. Here guys & gals, our MG9231 may not be so eloquent in English. Doesn't matter. His analytical skill is second to none. He is my Sifu from Johor. Our CHAMPION JOHOR INVESTOR.. From Now PM Corp Must Rise Not So Much By My Promotion.

PM Corp Shall Rise Based On Its Own Fundamental.

Posted by rooney2u > 2013-11-16 19:11 | Report Abuse

since calvin and kcchongnz has give some words and advice, my stone in the heart has been raised down. Calvin, i wont sell my pmcorp which cost rm0.27 although i hesitate to sell the highest on 36-c, but at last i did not do it. During the time you are away from this forum, i really worry and this stock is whether to be TMS, Sersol, Luster as some TA expert make sell call.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 19:14 | Report Abuse

Thank you, i follow, you too. Perak is a nice place to retire and examine stock with independent thinking like Warren in Omaha - away from the noise of wall street crowd

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 19:19 | Report Abuse

Posted by xxxvalue > Nov 16, 2013 06:29 PM | Report Abuse

Tq Kcchongnz. Just want to recheck wt u again, co made small net earnings past 2 yrs. But my calculation on owners earnings (cash) is -ive. I'm a value investor 2, we may not be looking at different thing, will be good we can share...knowledge. I can relate with u on the `few layers of thinking' as I read something similar in `The Art of Valuue Investing' by Heins Tilson.

The Art of Value Investing. Yes a good book. I just borrowed it from the library. Every value investor must read.

Now regarding owners' earnings of PM Corp. Last year, PM Corp has a CFFO of 5.03m. After capital expenses of 1.2m, FCF is 3.8m. If you talk about owner's earnings, then you must add back the 3.8m in the change in working capital, giving an owner's earnings of 7.6m. Do you agree? This is what I think, not 100% sure because nobody discusses owner's earnings with me before.

Of course this is just last year. But you do the same for the year 2011, there is also positive owner's earnings of about 7m, no FCF though.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 19:23 | Report Abuse

Sorry rooney2u, I feel like sheep going astray in all directions. Or ship without compass and car without steering wheel. At the last moment Meena e mailed me to check on technicality of not being able to access here. I felt a very great relief to be able to come back.

i have also not promoted at other forums except MUI Berhad.

I may not know other counters like our experts MG9231 and kcchongnz.

As Far As PM Corp Is Concerned I Have Absolute Confidence! .

CERTITUDE IS A GREAT THING - IF YOU KNOW - THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR..

Posted by rooney2u > 2013-11-16 19:35 | Report Abuse

Anyway thank you to let me understand well this undervalue counter

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 19:43 | Report Abuse

xxxvalue, "As an inivestor, I look at business operation. It is generating cash...simple. As I see it this co still have not make any. Instead it has been bleeding cash for yrs...I am not again PMCorp or any co for that matter. Just being rasional investor."

Pan Malaysia Corporation Bhd
Cash Flow Statement (partial):

Fiscal data as of Dec 31 2012: 2012 2011 2010
FROM OPERATIONS:
Net income 8.69 3.66 (3.91)
Depreciation/depletion 2.54 2.99 3.14
Non-Cash items (1.84) 0.58 (0.29)
Cash taxes paid, supplemental 0.93 (0.18) 0.41
Cash interest paid, supplemental 1.30 1.72 2.26
Changes in working capital (3.65) (6.57) (1.45)
Total cash from operations 5.73 0.64 (2.52)

Source: http://markets.ft.com/research//Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=PMCORP:KLS&subview=CashFlow&period=a

Posted by xxxvalue > 2013-11-16 19:46 | Report Abuse

ok I understand u Kcchongz. we look at same thing except I calculate it differently...I take capex average past number of years and it is much higher than the CFFO. So negative...well nobody is wrong or right here...we differ a bit, tq lol.

Posted by xxxvalue > 2013-11-16 20:06 | Report Abuse

just to add, I exclude changes in working cap. Prefer FCF, as over long term it gives better picture of whether co is a cash generator or blood (cash) sucker....