Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 20:10 | Report Abuse

Mktwatch,
From your data, there are cash flow from operation on average. 5.73 and 0.64m respectively for the last two years. Why do you say bleeding cash for years?

As I mentioned, there is even free cash flow of 3.8m last year.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-16 20:11 | Report Abuse

David79
My own 2c rece to your query based on basic read of all the info in this forum.
PMC is fully integrated in the cocolate part of its business. Everything they use is what they get from their own plantation abnd maybe other reliable Malaysian planters. The core and higher margin of their cocolated business is most likely the cocolate bars that we have been hearing about here compared to others like coco powder ....
As the demand for the bars are increasing it is only logical to use their primary produce to make and get the best margin. Besides, the cheaper competition and established name, I guess PMC's coco powder is superior as it is not a by-product. Calvin please check and confirm...

Unlike PMC, the international congomulates buy their coco from the major planters internationally, on-top of what they may have. COCO POWDER IS A BY-PRODUCT or the left-over of their other very high end extracts process i.e COCO BUTTER. The use of this butter is well-know in the beauty and health world.

No offence to anybody or company, just my own analysis of what info I gather here and my own logical analysis. I am an engineer by training and profession and so is natural to analysis based on info in front of me

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-16 20:17 | Report Abuse

FCF is CFFO less capital expenses. But if you talk about owners earnings in warren buffet context, then you add back the change in working capital. Agree?

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 20:42 | Report Abuse

I just bought 200g Tango milk chocolate from Hua Ho, Bandar Seri Begawan.
Behind have listed down all content % but unfortunately in Tamil or Thai (I'm not really sure about it as I can't read it).
B$3.30. Hahax...

Posted by rooney2u > 2013-11-16 20:49 | Report Abuse

how is the taste, lim?

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 20:51 | Report Abuse

I haven't buka. Later can serve me as supper before I sleep.
Worry hungry later~

Posted by vinvin > 2013-11-16 20:51 | Report Abuse

Lim, probably it is in Jawi.

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 20:56 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, I was just trying to point out to xxxvalue (coz he said, "I look at business operation. It is generating cash...simple") that PMCORP's business operations has been generating +ve cash since 2011 (albeit a small one - 0.64m - in 2011), and a much bigger (5.73m) one in 2012. It was xxxvalue who said, "Instead it has been bleeding cash for yrs".

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 20:57 | Report Abuse

I don't think so, there also have Jawi. The content wording is different from Jawi.
Jawi working is long & short, this wording is high is short. @.@

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 21:04 | Report Abuse

rooney2u, what is ur TP & how many lots u bought? U really have a nice heart, I'm so touch.
Mayb Calvin can do like tat either, distribute free Tango to orphan house.
I plan to buy back PM Corp after the financial result is out.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 21:09 | Report Abuse

Lim. In Singapore 200g Tango on offers at S$1.50 (Sing $ at same par value with your Brunei $). No wonder Tango Bars are flying off the shelves here in Singapore. Totally Sold Out Again Today!

Yes. Johnchong. NFI doesn't own cocoa plantations but purchase both cocoa powder and cocoa butter. We buy supplies from Barry Callebaut, the world largest manufacturer of cocoa products.

Years back NFI was OEM for the 180 Year Old Van Houten & NFI Australia Distributes the Australian Cadbury in Australia. Since Van Houten wanted to squeez for lower price from NFI. NFI ceased being OEM for Van Houten. NFI then created the TUDOR GOLD Brand.

TUDOR GOLD is coined by Vincent Tan who owned COSWAY. Cosway's 12 Designer Chocolate in boxes also called TUDOR GOLD are OEM by NFI.

TUDOR GOLD Is More Superior than the original Van Houten because TUDOR GOLD has extra 5% cocoa butter. Total cocoa content in Tudor Gold bar is 29% - beating the Australian Cadbury at 26%
So Malaysia made Tudor Gold Is The Best In Malaysia.

Van Houten has degenerated in quality. First moved to Indonesia, then to China (land of questionable milk). I think because Van Houten wanted to cut costs they added chocolate fillers called illipe & shea fats into the China made Van Houten bars.

As for Cadbury, Vochelle, Nestle's kit kat made in Malaysia they all have only 7% or less cocoa. Rest filled with illipe and shea fats. Kit kat even put flour to cut further cost.

NFI Tango with Antioxidant beats all hands down. That's why discerning Singaporeans are lapping it up.

In Future, When PM Corp sells off all assets and accelerate manufacturing of FMCF (Fast Moving Consumer Food) the cash flow will definitely increase by manifold.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2013-11-16 21:18 | Report Abuse

Yes. Lim. I have been passing out Tango chocolate to all at OSK/RHB 3 branches in JB & Kulai And Told them about PM Corp's good prospects. I think I should get more for distribution to the poor.

I have to get some sleep now. Nice to see so many experts here today. A welcome change indeed!

Good Night Everybody.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 21:18 | Report Abuse

calvintaneng, u really hurt my feeling lah. No chocolate fair in Brunei. Sad....
I'm going to Singapore this december school holiday, mayb I can sapu Tango there.
I can spend my Brunei dollar there, rite? Here, accept all Singapore currency except S$1 coin due to it shape.

Posted by rooney2u > 2013-11-16 21:30 | Report Abuse

Sorry just now unpurposely delete the post. yes I will donate charity house when my 1st tp is 40c with holding 500 lot.

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 21:35 | Report Abuse

kcchong, I'll follow AKH but will also like to make a bit extra from your post next year.don't leave me out.thank you.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 21:39 | Report Abuse

Wah, mikekong55 u r even older than my father. >.<
Really full of experience. Don't leave me out when u start to pick up some shares in February orMarch.
Thanks~

Posted by avenger88 > 2013-11-16 21:44 | Report Abuse

Calvin,take rest and good nite

Posted by avenger88 > 2013-11-16 21:50 | Report Abuse

Lim, ur dad did not teach u any secret recipe to beat those sifu?

Posted by xxxvalue > 2013-11-16 21:53 | Report Abuse

I'm back..to kcchongnz, yes u r correct Warren Buffet does it that way. But value investing is not exact science....we continuosly improvise to suit our style without undermining on the principle. Even WB style has departed from his Sifu Ben Graham. Anyway tq again for a bit of intellectual discourse with u...good nite.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-16 21:55 | Report Abuse

Lim
The S$ and B$ are at par and can be used interchangibly in Singapore. Is is accepted by everyone/shops without exception.

Should you visit Singapore end of Jan'14, can visit Logos Hope the largest f;oating library in the world be be berthing near the city for visitors. No entrance fees and books without GST nor tax. I bought 3 hards cover books last month for BD2 equivalent to S$6.6 each only.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-16 21:57 | Report Abuse

I also will be in Singapore during this period which will be my first home coming for a CNY gathering after 9 years. Haha

Posted by avenger88 > 2013-11-16 22:02 | Report Abuse

Tudor fan club at singapore....haha

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 22:04 | Report Abuse

avenger88, my dad have zero knowledge on stock market lah. =.="
I'm on my own now. =(
johnchong, because I heard some rumour telling me some hawker stalls there don't accept B$.
I only will be in Singapore mid of December. January, I got work le. Mayb we can meet up with Calvin, to teach us more on investing & about PM Corp. =)

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 22:09 | Report Abuse

LIM,surely let you know when my fund manager AKH advise me then. make sure you're able to hold around 10 months. have make provision for your monthly expenses before putting that extra cash into stock market. don't touch this counter after Q3 result out share price value all factor in.will move december on capital reduction payment(if any) but give it a benefit of doubt. if you have spare cash now can try POS MALAYSIA, special dividend 0.40-0.59 due to be announce on 25/11/13 or 26/11/13.probably share price will move above RM6.00.

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-16 22:12 | Report Abuse

Thanks Calvin for the clarification. I was trying to explain since no one was responding to David.

I do not normally appear in the forum as it is enervating and also do not have those youthful enetgy. As I said before I admire the quantum of energy you spend here.

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 22:16 | Report Abuse

I fear my earlier post might have been misunderstood by some. So, let me restate my post as follows:-


xxxvalue said (N I quote), "As an inivestor, I look at business operation. It is generating cash...simple. As I see it this co still have not make any. Instead it has been bleeding cash for yrs...I am not again PMCorp or any co for that matter. Just being rasional investor." (unquote).

Actually, from the perspective of business operations, PMCORP had stopped bleeding cash and had started to generate positive cash flows from its business operations since 2011. Below is a partial copy of its CF Statement:-

Pan Malaysia Corporation Bhd
Cash Flow Statement (partial):

Fiscal data as of Dec 31 2012: 2012 2011 2010
FROM OPERATIONS:
Net income 8.69 3.66 (3.91)
Depreciation/depletion 2.54 2.99 3.14
Non-Cash items (1.84) 0.58 (0.29)
Cash taxes paid, supplemental 0.93 (0.18) 0.41
Cash interest paid, supplemental 1.30 1.72 2.26
Changes in working capital (3.65) (6.57) (1.45)
Total cash from operations 5.73 0.64 (2.52)

Please read the full CFS from the site stated below for a full picture:

Source: http://markets.ft.com/research//Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=PMCORP:KLS&subview=CashFlow&period=a

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 22:20 | Report Abuse

mikekong55 or mktwatch, could u advise me on Ecofirst?
Any recommendation to enter at 22.5 cents?

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 22:25 | Report Abuse

LIM, lose count how many time this share change of name. many people already burned by this counter.can't help you,don't want to send you to the furnace this young.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 22:26 | Report Abuse

NTA 0.26, PE 3.725, Dividend 0%, ROE 14.51%, EPS 6.04 cents, Earning yield 18.4%, Returns on capital 10.5% but Graham net net -233550k.
The company only short coming is low cash & high debt. >.<

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 22:31 | Report Abuse

why not you look at LCTH, NTA 0.48 closing price 0.20 plenty of margin of safety. for long term

Posted by sephiroth > 2013-11-16 22:34 | Report Abuse

林俊松, ecofirst last 2 quarters total profit of RM33m looks 'impressive'

4Q13 'profit' due to lower tax penalty interests, gains on fair value adjustments on investment property and gains on disposal of quoted investments

1Q14 'profit' primarily due to a waiver of term loan liabilities amounting to RM16.0 million granted to its subsidiary

except for the on disposal of quoted investments, all others are non cash items

Cash RM2.126m ???(2 quarters 'profit' RM33m???)
Borrowings RM76.683m

Posted by hepitrade > 2013-11-16 22:34 | Report Abuse

Mikekong55 only teach LIM instead of others... Haha. No offend

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 22:35 | Report Abuse

Lim, good for U to do yr own homework!

Lim, U said:"NTA 0.26, PE 3.725, Dividend 0%, ROE 14.51%, EPS 6.04 cents, Earning yield 18.4%, Returns on capital 10.5% but Graham net net -233550k.The company only short coming is low cash & high debt. >.<"

U said it yrself, "The company only short coming is low cash & high debt." That is reason enough not to buy it.

G'nite.

Posted by kumar > 2013-11-16 22:37 | Report Abuse

Tudor Gold selling all over cosway outlet. Cosway has 800 outlets. One outlet selling roughly 200 packs (190-200g RM10.90/pack) let say 1.75million per month sales. This is only rough calculation only not exact figure. I think the sales increasing now because of more super market also selling this Tudor Gold! Like Giant, Tesco, etc...

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 22:44 | Report Abuse

mktwatch, I tot u r more on TA analysis. I saw Ecofirst MACD chart signal buy & RSI also 70+ heading north. =.="
So, sephiroth & mikekong55 r highly discourage me to buy. Argh... my dream stock telah pecah!!!
How now....

Posted by Fabien Wong > 2013-11-16 22:47 | Report Abuse

Calvin: When is the 6 acres of ShahAlam's factory starts its production?

Posted by Vincent Than > 2013-11-16 22:48 | Report Abuse

Pecah adi lor hahaha.. im walking around to see good stocks too =,=

Posted by nch218 > 2013-11-16 22:52 | Report Abuse

Lim,another stock to be look at hiaptek...at least to follow uptrend from engtex..due to increasing demand for water related products..

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 22:56 | Report Abuse

hepitrade, I at this age still need people to teach me how to invest. am still learning investors behaviour and character.how there express when market goes up and when market falls.hepitrade, if you missed my posting in the morning, let me tell you, according to Dr. Khan of AFFIN INVESTMENT the downward correction is more or less over. starting next week there will be upward trend not by blue chip but second and third liners. he say the year end rally going to start next week,believe or not it's your choice.(source:THE EDGE)

Posted by Vincent Than > 2013-11-16 22:58 | Report Abuse

Hi @mike, wanna ask u what is second and third liners? ><

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 23:00 | Report Abuse

fabien wong, land not cleared and factory not build. where got new production line.

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 23:10 | Report Abuse

Lim, First do quick FA as suggested by mikekong55 (N I quote him below what he shared in an earlier post)to screen for undervalued stocks, but stocks with good growth potential. Then, do TA on those stocks you have chosen out of those screened by mikekong55's quick FA, for things like when to Enter, Ss n Rs, etc.

Per mikekong55: "HOW TO SPOT UNDERVALUE STOCK (1) STOCK HAVING CASH EXCEEDING MARKET CAPITALISATION (2) STOCK TRADING BELOW 2/3 OF NTA (3) STOCK TRADING BELOW PE 10x (4) DIVIDEND YIELD EXCEEDING 5% PA (5) REVENUE & EARNING GROWTH FOR PAST 3 YEARS (6) STRONG BALANCE SHEET (7) GOOD REPUTABLE MANAGEMENT AND SHAREHOLDERS (8) PROPERTY ASSETS NOT VALUE SINCE 2006 above are some guideline to pick a good stock good for short/medium/long term"

I use both FA N TA. But remember, do your own homework. Then u will have better understanding of the potentials of the stocks, its business, competitive advantage, etc, etc, B4 U invests in them. IF u

Posted by mktwatch > 2013-11-16 23:17 | Report Abuse

contd from above post to Lim,

If U always rely on others to do yr homework, u won't learn. All of us share info on voluntary basis in our spare time in this forum, n it should be regarded as such. Voluntary n not compulsory.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 23:27 | Report Abuse

mktwatch, thank u so much.
mikekong55, I will follow ur call into LCTH. =)

Posted by johnchong > 2013-11-16 23:31 | Report Abuse

Fabien Wong
Were you in Jurong PS before?

Posted by tsurukame > 2013-11-16 23:31 | Report Abuse

Good evening to you Calvintaneng,
I have followed your recent threads and you have worked to attain very high competent knowledge on PMCorp, its people, its production assets, its products, its distribution coverage, its marketing strategy and good understanding of what it takes to drive up top line and bottom line growth in FMCG (fast moving Consumer Goods) products.

I have reviewed the 2012 Annual Report and in 2012 PMCorp made a pretax profit of 8.7 million and 2.4 million of the pretax profit was due to reversal of impairment loss due to property appreciation and the real pretax profit from operation is 6.3 million which translates to an EPS of 0.82 Malaysian cents per share...EPS for 2011 is only 0.39 cents.... PM Corp managed to flog off the Singapore Woodlands link property for 38.2 million ringgit and this will enhance the EPS for PMCorp in 2013 no doubt...but the real significant determinant of PMCorp market price is what is the EPS derived from manufacturing, distributing, marketing and Selling chocolates...

PMCorp core business is in the manufacturing, distribution, marketing and sale of Tango, Tudor, Crispy chocolates besides distributing and selling other branded chocolates i.e Toblerone etc. The fact remains that the pretax profits derived from chocolate manufacturing and selling is very low ie. 0.82 cents per share in 2012 althougt it had improved over 2011..Tudor, Tango and Crispy are fighting against well established branded players and may possibly be losing out on top of mind recall against such strong brands like Cadbury, Lindt, Nestle etc ...I do somehow detect that the packaging design and colours for Tango is very close to Cadbury chocolate packaging design as well...a Me Too product in consumer marketing terminology...

My key question to you is as follows:
- What is the market share of Tango, Tudor, Krispy relative to the major players in the markets which NFI is competing in
- How had NFI grown the respective market shares of Tango, Tudor gold, Krispy....what is the percentage sales contribution from Tango, Tudor, Krispy and Others based on a sale of say Ringgit 1,000(One thousand sales revenue)
- What is the growth rate of branded and metoos chocolates in the markets that NFI is competing in
-What had been NFI(PMCorp) growth rate versus the market growth rate in the main markets that NFI is competing in..Is Tango, Tudor, Krispy outgrowing the market leader in the respective product category??
- What is NFI forecast of revenue and pretax profit going forward for 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016?
-How would NFI employ the cash derived from the sale of its property in Woodlands link to drive up top line and bottom line for NFI products
- Does NFI has a real competitive advantage in manufacturing chocolates in Malaysia??? Sugar in Msia ..an important raw material for chocolates is much higher priced relative to other markets..and Msia has import duties on imported goods till end 2014..
- Does Tango, Tudor Gold, Krispy have good brand imagery, good top of mind recall versus the market leaders....If not what are the actions that need to be taken to improve top of mind recall
-Tango as you stated had outsold Van Houten and frankly Van Houten had done nothing much to strengthen its presence in both above line and below line activities...It had neglected its brand and rely too much on its past laurels...and you had stated that tango, Tudor, Krispy are selling well because of its taste, pricing and good packaging....vital components in the overall marketing mix.....How is Tango, Tudor, Krispy faring against the branded players?? Is price an important determinant of Tango, Tudor and Krispy sales in the respective markets that it competes in?? What will be the effect on NFI products if NFI raises its retail selling price to nearly match the market leaders??

My take is NFI products are me toos and is overtly price driven...it lacks strong brand imagery that influences repeat purchases and consequently it has to rely on below line heavy trade promotions to sell its products and this will undoubtedly affect the pretax profits figures...well if any company sells solely on price...there wont be much contribution to its bottom line growth...

In view of the above does NFI have the strategic plans to invest in above line marketing campaigns...?? Does NFI has any such plans to invest on strengthening its brand image given the fact that NFI offers better value and better quality raw materials for chocolates it produces...at the end of the day NFI products must be able to command good brand image, good top of mind recall to deliver both top line and bottom line growth...

Thank you for listening to me and Good night to you Calvintaneng..

Posted by mikekong55 > 2013-11-16 23:53 | Report Abuse

vincent than,I understand second/lower liners but don't know how to phrase it.second liner share are riskier than bluechip .there are generally far from speculative.good second liner usually earning profits and paying dividend yearly.lower liner are speculative stock.hope someone out there can help.

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 23:54 | Report Abuse

mikekong55, LCTH
NTA 0.48, PE ratio 7.3, Dividend 0, ROE 6.24%, EPS 2.74 cents, Earning yield 17.85%, returns on capital 6.8% and Graham net-net RM54,623,997.75. Dunno correct or not.
Roughly should be like that.
Recommend me to enter?

Posted by Vincent Than > 2013-11-16 23:55 | Report Abuse

I think i have some idea already thank you! bluechip is consider Rm10 and above right?

Posted by 林俊松 > 2013-11-16 23:56 | Report Abuse

Blue Chip is like Amway ba, second liner should b like hai-o or zhulian, lower liner like PM Corp now? o.0"