Choivo Capital
(CHOIVO CAPITAL) Remember Croesus
Choivo Capital
Publish date: Sun, 02 Dec 2018, 02:28 AM
One of my favourite articles from KCCHONGNZ, illustrated the story of Croesus. He was a Greek king, who was also the first to issue gold coins. He was one of the richest and most powerful men on earth at the time.
Croesus, secure in his happiness, his wealth and his power, asked the oracle Solon, if he was the happiest man in the world.
Solon's response that three had been happier than Croesus: Tellus, who died fighting for his country, and the brothers Kleobis and Biton who died peacefully in their sleep after their mother prayed for their perfect happiness because they had demonstrated filial piety by drawing her to a festival in an oxcart themselves.
Solon goes on to explain that Croesus cannot be the happiest man because the fickleness of fortune means that the happiness of a man's life cannot be judged until after his death.
Within a few years, Croesus suffered the accidental death of his son, the suicide of his wife upon the fall of his city, and lastly, lost a war to the Persians, became a slave and was burned on a pyre.
Our track record is not done until we are dead.
And today, we read a post by a person, who despite all that has occurred, is probably still very wealthy and have a great life. But whose recent predicament, bears some similarity to that of Croesus.
A brief letter to Koon Yew Yin
Dear Mr Koon Yew Yin,
I’ve always been accused as someone who does not know his place. Someone who is “Boh Tua Boh Suay” or (No Big No Small) and a more than a little arrogant.
Well, they are truths in those accusations, and what I’m about to write will likely provide further evidence to these, admittedly partly accurate accusations. However, I felt compelled to write this, mostly for my own reflection and reminder, and partly for the possibility you might read it.
I know you are a busy person, so I’ll get right to the point.
When I first started investing seriously in KLSE markets circa 2016, your blog was one of the few I finished. I always felt you were a relatively sharp person, but having read buffet, graham and the rest since i was 12, and thus being an inoculated value investor, i always felt that the picks might have been a little off. Nevertheless, being younger and greedy, I decided to take a flyer on them.
It took me tuition fees of RM1,000-RM2,000 (Chinwell and Gadang) before i regained some of my sense, another RM3,000-RM4,000 to learn not to listen OTB blindly (Gamuda-WE) (we are different people with different philosophies), and another RM5,000-6,000 to understand the foolishness of short term trading, speculation and the aversion towards realizing a loss.
All of which are well worth the money, and the few months spent learning them.
The best way, is to properly learn and study all the greats thoroughly before we start investing. The second best is to lose some money and learn via experience while one is young not that rich. The third, is to lose a lot, or go bankrupt (not too badly) at an age where one still has a chance for a comeback.
Mr Koon, you are 85 years old. By my calculations (done in my head for 5 seconds), you should have lost at least RM60million or so on JAKS. Most of which are realized, some unrealized. Which should be the bulk of your investment gains for the last 5 years.
Despite being the former founder of IJM, Mudajaya and Gamuda. I am sure these are still a very significant injury to your finances.
From your recent article, I was heartened by your willingness to share your failures as well as some of your learnings from this recent event.
However, I must be frank. For RM60million or so. I’m not sure you have gotten your money’s worth.
As you’re likely to have other priorities and commitments that may prevent you from properly furthering your education in investing, via reading (for the record, I’m a big fan of learning vicariously through the experience and failures of others when it comes to money).
Here is a list of quotes on investing I find most intelligent. The thing about quotes or sayings, is that they often encapsulate the essence of the topic.
https://choivocapital.com/quotes-on-intelligent-investing/
However, It would be better if you read the books, and see these ideas fully expanded along with the examples.
Here is a list.
https://choivocapital.com/2018/11/28/investment-books-to-read-and-why-you-should-read-more/
If you can’t find any of them, let me know, and I’ll send you a soft copy (or a hardcopy when I drop by Ipoh sometime next month).
They will cost your far less than RM60 million, but for someone of your stature and wealth, they’ll be worth a lot more than that.
You may contact me at choivocapital@gmail.com or ask Mr OTB for my contact. I have your contact, but I’m not one to impose uninvited.
PS: In your writings, you often said how you do not know how to read financial statements. I concede that the ability to read financial statements does not guarantee success in investing or speculating. God knows audit firms are filled with investment failures.
However, if you’re unable understand financial statements, then you go through your investment career like a one–legged man in an ass–kicking contest. You’re giving a huge advantage to everybody else.
Imagine how much better of an investor you would be, if you spent the one or two days learning to do so.
If you’d like, I am open to giving you’re a quick lesson over 2-3 hours when I’m in Ipoh.
Regards
Jonathan Choi
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Website: www.choivocapital.com
Email: choivocapital@gmail.com
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Discussions
2 people like this. Showing 50 of 83 comments
your quote below:
"Investment: The purchase of a security at a price at a significant discount to the value of all its future cash flows discounted to present value."
...........
Until all the future cash flows takes place the so called 'investor' by your definition is just a trader (calculated gambler) who is waiting for the valuation to match his perceived intrinsic value as per his predicted Future Cash Flows (FCF) based on his present knowledge of the business.
There are no certainty his estimated FCF will take place as per his prediction.
Investors are just traders who are predicting future cash flows (relative to different investment options) by sitting on their purchase for a slightly longer period relatively and ignoring - being less sensitive to recent information changes.
As much as trader who makes mistakes on their valuation, investors have the same odds of doing so equally.
...................................
Now, when one (person x) comes an enlighten the market with new information on the relative valuation of these investments as per x's perception, market appreciates this by reflecting the probable value of these investment based on this newly acquired knowledge (perception).
Perhaps in the near future another person y will enlighten differently and market will start valuing these investment back as it was earlier.
And then again in a distant future, person z may come and enlighten differently...
Until the future takes place and all these future cash flows happens no (traders or 'ínvestors') is certain who was right...x, y, z or the axxhole that never listened to any of these new information providers.
Now where is ethics involved here and where is the difference between investment and trading?
Its all just about being more intelligent than the other.
when someone come and help you to become more intelligent, a little appreciation and humbleness wont do any harm.
2018-12-03 14:31
and what these x,y and z gains for the information they shared...is none of your bloody business...why bother? nothing is free man....
you are always free to scrutinize the information they shared..and chose to act or not to act according to your new perception..
2018-12-03 14:38
This is not business, this is investment. Unless you run a hedge fund that is doomed to underperform the index, you don't need that many staff. If you're good, 4 people can probably handle about USD200billion,
There is two things you need to note. Acccounting and Investing have very different requirements.
What is true and fair in terms of accounting, is often inaccurate in describing the economics in the business. Its trade offs, that have no easy solutions.
I dont remember writing much about accounting standards beyond MFRS9 for financial institutions. Whose audits i have zero experience with.
My previous audit firm (i resigned 3 months ago) has a bigger audit department than Deloitte. And i was scored pretty damn good in performance reviews before leaving. I also got an offer from PWC for AM last week (which i turned down). Audit firms dont pay much. ;)
Thank god i wasnt trained at an IB. I would be an utter IYI, intellectual yet idiot then. Working under fucked up incentives that are net negatives to society.
Lets have some fun, show me a five year projection that you made, and compare it to the actual. Lets see how much of your time and brainpower did you waste.
Or how these fools do valaution using industry average. Really? IHH is 50PE, when it can barely make 4% ROE much less ROA using peak results.
Or how past price trends and volatility mean anything in terms of risk.
Thank god for IB's and their training of their analyst in financial models. Along with economic departments in universities. They contribute to the inaccuracies in the market that allow people like me to profit off.
On the ego and arrogance. I concede i am definitely a little of both.
But do note confuse my contempt for hypocritcal, sewerage rats as ego/arrogance. I am both capable as judging someone as both brilliant and disgusting.
I dont know you well enough, but you seem to be an one of the latter.
Now, if you have crticism on my thought process and analysis. Be specific and elucidate.
====
And I can tell that you are not trained at an investment bank. Again, I stand to be corrected but I am pretty confident.
What you write in i3 (with quotes and names throwing of so and so here and there) may impress the average layman. Some of us here who live in the financial industry however will not buy into your boasting and 'lagak pandai'.
There is nothing wrong with you writing your opinion in 13. It is after all a public site. But you should learn to handle your ego and arrogance. It is quite a pain to read your downright rude postings.
03/12/2018 12:59
2018-12-03 15:04
Yeap having read your other comments.
Definitely an IYI. Lots of intelligence. Low common sense.
At the rate you're going on, i would strongly suggest you take you money out and buy fd along with the chinese index.
2018-12-03 15:09
Jon, after my message above, and if you still could not grasp , i would need to conclude you are hopeless liao...having serious mental issues as said by others.
Pointless to have any interaction further.
Posted by soojinhou > Dec 3, 2018 06:54 AM | Report Abuse
Great to know that your contempt for everyone else other than yourself extends to professional analysts too. Let me remind you again that there are multitude of products like mutual funds, unit trusts, low cost etfs and fixed deposits for the uninitiated, uninterested and the risk-averse. We are not babysitters and no one guarantees a positive outcome from forecasts. In fact, analyst reports, either from i3 amateurs or investment bank professionals are pretty transparent in their thesis and valuation. While I have my reservations for professional analysts and fund managers, I'm not about to call them sewerage. You have some serious mental issues boy, and your language reflects your immaturity.
2018-12-03 15:24
You remind of people who go around studying and argueing about the exact day seneca was born, instead of just obtaining the maximum value by reading his philosophy.
The difference is this.
The figures given by these quarter predictor analyst in malaysia, are often unusually optimistic and far above the actual economic power of the company. And to often to do so with precision which end up to completely wrong.
And these quarter predictors, usually have their own motives hidden. Or at least not obvious.
I have no problem if someone bets their own money on the pop etc.
But i find it despicable when people try to manipulate the crowd to be stupider than it already is. One can argue, what's the use of fools except to be taken advantage off?
Well, nothing wrong with that. But i reserve the right to find you disgusting, and state so.
Now do note, i am not saying that is david etc.
But he sure comes close, knowingly or unknowingly.
I don't get why you or sjh, seems to think i have to consider people like david etc etc as angels of the market or somthing.
I find them a bit more ethical that people like "Spartan" or whatever name they appear by.
In any event. I'm done. There are few things less productive than arguing or dicussing things with someone online, that result in zero new insight formyself.
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Posted by probability > Dec 3, 2018 03:24 PM | Report Abuse
Jon, after my message above, and if you still could not grasp , i would need to conclude you are hopeless liao...having serious mental issues as said by others.
Pointless to have any interaction further.
2018-12-03 15:39
Even for investors to make money, he needs fool who cant value the future cash flows as good as he does...
What makes you certain that market (or crowd you said) is full of fools and that people like David can generate unrealistic optimism?
Market is ever changing and dynamic...it can be very efficient too.
So, stop these unsupported bias you have for certain methodology of investment and criticism on others...
as you simple do not have the facts to prove your judgement is more correct than the others.
2018-12-03 15:44
what prevents me from saying investors have their own hidden motives to find a market which are stupid...they seek stupidity so that they can buy cheap?
Why cant i say the same to investors...despicable manipulate with ill intentions to take advantage of others?
stock market is about a calculated bet on future value...
whoever comes and helps with whatever financial and investment tools or business knowledge...are totally to be welcomed.
if they provide wrong information.. its the duty of the readers to highlight these for the benefit of all the readers including self.
2018-12-03 15:52
Wahseh, your reading comprehension really nothing to say.
I have nothing against people who trade, i do so a little myself.
Yes, if an investor sees a wonderful company, but spread rumours that its going bankrupt etc to buy cheaper.
That is despicable as well.
People who try and provide just knowledge, well they are of course to be welcomed.
But if someone writes an article espousing the wonder of a certain company. They are to be viewed with scepticism. Track the incentives!
Yes, i called out, yours and stockraider foolishness. Davidtslims, and that fella who went around predicting lionind earnings.
However, that is apprently not acceptable, by the fellow interested parties. You forget how you and raider sabo 3iii everyday ah?
You forget how SJH thought i was being very unfair to the guy who wrote the lionind article.
I quote
“The whole article consists of extensive network of data points taken from numerous sources, it took the author tremendous effort to piece together the whole picture. For that, his effort should be commended, not belittled.”
Waseh, challenge his arguements equal belittled.
For writing an article for which he will benefit very well financially from the goreng, even if it was completely wrong.
I should commend him.
Look if it was his own private research, then yes. I'll commend him and be in awe of the work done. He did it for his own curiosity, and he held it close to his chest, because he is so certain its a fantastic bit of research. So good, he don't want people to buy.
You think i give the rcecap research because my heart gold meh? No choice mah! And not going to be bad for me mah!
In any event, i'm done with this topic. Its of zero value to me, to continously piss off people here. And is probably a net negative.
An investor just wrote me saying that he was scared of asking me a question on some of the larger picks, because he didnt want to get sabo. As if i have some agenda on not wanting the any errorsor misjudgements to surface, allowing me to sell and save everyones money.
That is definitely not the result im looking for.
2018-12-03 16:07
Dear Probability,
I must say, you have a way of getting me to reply to you haha.
Yes, the macro can change very quickly.
An intrinsic value consist of many factors. The management, the economic moat of the business, its pricing power etc etc
One of them being the cost of goods, as well as the price they can get for the goods they sell, which naturally fluctuate. Espeacially for commodity companies.
But as stated above, the intrinsic value is more than just the change in value in the price of certain goods, that resulted in a temporary increase or decrease in economics.
For example, HY is going to have a record breaking quarter. Does that mean it changes the intrinsic value by a larger amount? No. Unless that record breaking quarter is very resilient and going to persist to eternity.
That is clearly not the case for pretty much 99% of the companies in bursa.
Just because your son fail one exam, does that mean he go from genius to retard? No mah.
At best these temporary fluctuations, account for less than a 10% change all the future cash flows of the business discounted to present value. Or the real economics of the business.
Likewise, they are some events, that at first glance appear to have no effect on earnings. But represent a complete shift in the fundamentals, and can kill a company in 2 years or less. Look at star.
But these quarter predictors, act as if that is the case. Come on, how does it make sense to pay RM1.6 at all for masteel, Rm3.4 for Annjoo or RM20 for HY?
Now, HY was probably very very undervalued at RM2. But at RM7-10. It was probably above fair value d.
now, one can argue, some of these quarter predictors, probably didnt know better.
Well, their stupidity (malicious or innocent) resulted in some very bad outcomes for many people.
I guess its more of hate the sin, love the sinner.
In that respect, im definitely deficient.
2018-12-03 16:40
He's just here to cari makan lah. He put down others so he can lift himself up. If not how to appear knowledgeable? OK lorr, it's his right to do that, it's an open forum.
2018-12-03 16:53
For example, HY is going to have a record breaking quarter. Does that mean it changes the intrinsic value by a larger amount? No. Unless that record breaking quarter is very resilient and going to persist to eternity.
..................
(P): How did you conclude that the record earnings was going to be one time event and will not be the norm going forward at the time of the results?
what is the underlying mechanism that it wont be so....
and why did the market assume so and gave a price of RM 19?
..................
That is clearly not the case for pretty much 99% of the companies in bursa.
(P) : really? there are no companies that continue growing their earnings after such events?
..................
Just because your son fail one exam, does that mean he go from genius to retard? No mah.
(P) : how did you manage to link a son performance with a business performance...they are equally erratic?
I think you argument above arise from a highly debatable opinions....
you should focus on giving such arguments when such an article or unrealistic optimism arise in the future...so that its beneficial at that time...it certainly have no use now.
2018-12-03 16:56
Hahaha. You all actually bother to reply to this Jon. He cannot see that what he do is exactly what he accuse other of doing. People blog is to pump and dump. He blog is to share his knowledge with the world. Hahaha. His vision is see himself only
2018-12-03 17:00
No need argue with this kind people like Jon. You cannot win one. He will write something super long to justify to himself, not to you. He only live in his own world. And he need to always justify to himself that he is correct. That is why he must write long long. Deep inside he has very big insecurity. That why must show the world like he very good
2018-12-03 17:03
I find so funny that this fellow so cocky want to sell service to Uncle Koon by writing open blog. Really no shame. He sure think hard a few days to write the letter to Uncle Koon. "Wah this time my opportunity come liao! KYY lose money. Is desperate. If i offer help him make money he sure think about it".
He didnt realise the whole laugh. He just made himself look so silly.
2018-12-03 17:09
Its a metaphor. Some events that happen are one off and have little bearing on the company's or the person's life in general.
first time 100 mark for maths. Well thats good, but that does not mean he will be nobel prize winner. The probability just went up by 0.5% or something.
You son took his first hit of heroin. Well. This one is likely to have a huge effect. His intrinsic value just went down at least 30%, even if he seems fine for the next 3 months.
=====
Just because your son fail one exam, does that mean he go from genius to retard? No mah.
(P) : how did you manage to link a son performance with a business performance...they are equally erratic?
They are. Probablity is low. 1% of bursa companies is about 9.
There are probably around 10 or less who have consistently maintained high ROE and ROIC for the last 20 years, coupled with increasing earnings. We use this as proxy to "record earnings for life".
as a whole, corporate earnings growth cannot exceed gdp growth for any significant amount of time, without having very very inequal outcomes. Like what happened in the US from 1970-now.
===
That is clearly not the case for pretty much 99% of the companies in bursa.
(P) : really? there are no companies that continue growing their earnings after such events?
Markets are dynamic, crack spread do not stay fat all the time. Comodity prices do not stay high all the time. Even when its really hard to get like cobalt and lithium
If its expensive, people will find alternatives.
If crack fat, people delay maintainence, increaseing supply, lowering spread.
If crack thin, people do maintainence now, decreasing supply, fattening spread.
The only questions is, how good is you plant to begin with. I wrote this so many bloody times, and i can't rmbr how many times, i, ricky and 3iii got called pondan.
Same thing with steel etc etc.
====
(P): How did you conclude that the record earnings was going to be one time event and will not be the norm going forward at the time of the results?
what is the underlying mechanism that it wont be so....
and why did the market assume so and gave a price of RM 19?
So how do we counter this? When intrinsic value can shift so much or so little, whether up or down?
Improve thinking process.
Margin of safety, and being conservative loh. Ben Graham 101.
2018-12-03 17:09
Think properly lah Jon. Uncle Koon is billionaire. He lost this money heart a bit pain only. Wont affect his wealth much. At his level of wealth, he only not happy losing and ego kena knock.
You totally dont understand other people's thinking. Only your way to think is correct, right?
2018-12-03 17:11
I3value.
Yeah, i'm always wondering if im wrong.
And i always write long long so that people can see my thought process and hopefully poke holes in them and show me to be a fool.
Its better to find out you are one, than to actually be one and not know.
I dont write to share knowledge with, though if one found it helpful, i am pleased.
I write to crystlize my thoughts, to organize my thinking better. Writing is like thinking, but on steroid.
As for an audience. I'm fine with a few, with one or with zero.
2018-12-03 17:12
And you got your facts wrong. He is not a billionaire, but a millionaire.
Right now after that burn, he should still have about RM100m, but barely. I doubt he has Rm200m.
====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:11 PM | Report Abuse
Think properly lah Jon. Uncle Koon is billionaire. He lost this money heart a bit pain only. Wont affect his wealth much. At his level of wealth, he only not happy losing and ego kena knock.
You totally dont understand other people's thinking. Only your way to think is correct, right?
2018-12-03 17:13
Ok Jon, looking at your feedback below...i can say you have a very different world which you are living as someone just said.
I must be living in my own world (unreal) as perceived by you.
Very difficult to bridge this two world...
At least i managed to get a glimpse of your world (dont wish to be there frankly)..
may be we can discuss again when either of our world comes a little closer in the future..
bye for now
Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:07 PM | Report Abuse
Its a metaphor. Some events that happen are one off and have little bearing on the company's or the person's life in general.
first time 100 mark for maths. Well thats good, but that does not mean he will be nobel prize winner. The probability just went up by 0.5% or something.
You son took his first hit of heroin. Well. This one is likely to have a huge effect. His intrinsic value just went down at least 30%, even if he seems fine for the next 3 months.
=====
Just because your son fail one exam, does that mean he go from genius to retard? No mah.
(P) : how did you manage to link a son performance with a business performance...they are equally erratic?
They are. Probablity is low. 1% of bursa companies is about 9.
There are probably around 10 or less who have consistently maintained high ROE and ROIC for the last 20 years, coupled with increasing earnings. We use this as proxy to "record earnings for life".
as a whole, corporate earnings growth cannot exceed gdp growth for any significant amount of time, without having very very inequal outcomes. Like what happened in the US from 1970-now.
===
That is clearly not the case for pretty much 99% of the companies in bursa.
(P) : really? there are no companies that continue growing their earnings after such events?
Markets are dynamic, crack spread do not stay fat all the time. Comodity prices do not stay high all the time. Even when its really hard to get like cobalt and lithium
If its expensive, people will find alternatives.
If crack fat, people delay maintainence, increaseing supply, lowering spread.
If crack thin, people do maintainence now, decreasing supply, fattening spread.
The only questions is, how good is you plant to begin with. I wrote this so many bloody times, and i can't rmbr how many times, i, ricky and 3iii got called pondan.
Same thing with steel etc etc.
====
(P): How did you conclude that the record earnings was going to be one time event and will not be the norm going forward at the time of the results?
what is the underlying mechanism that it wont be so....
and why did the market assume so and gave a price of RM 19?
So how do we counter this? When intrinsic value can shift so much?
Margin of safety, and being conservative loh. Ben Graham 101.
2018-12-03 17:19
You write so long for what? Go straight to the point. Only people with no confidence but still want to show smart keep repeat and repeat. And then write long long throw in technical terms and want other believe to see you as smart. You think still in university need to score point for essay?
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:12 PM | Report Abuse
I3value.
Yeah, i'm always wondering if im wrong.
And i always write long long so that people can see my thought process and hopefully poke holes in them and show me to be a fool.
Its better to find out you are one, than to actually be one and not know.
I dont write to share knowledge with, though if one found it helpful, i am pleased.
I write to crystlize my thoughts, to organize my thinking better. Writing is like thinking, but on steroid.
As for an audience. I'm fine with a few, with one or with zero.
2018-12-03 17:23
You must have failed your reading comprehension.
"i3value is a retard."
That statement is useless mah. must support with reasoning and example mah.
unless for you, you only need that to make your conclusions lah.
In that case youre an analyst's dream. Just say "buy", you rush to sailang!
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Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:23 PM | Report Abuse
You write so long for what? Go straight to the point. Only people with no confidence but still want to show smart keep repeat and repeat. And then write long long throw in technical terms and want other believe to see you as smart. You think still in university need to score point for essay?
2018-12-03 17:27
You are his stomach worm? How you know?
Your brain really got big problem. People's wealth you know?
"Right now after that burn, he should still have about RM100m, but barely."
Can see your thinking. You know how much Uncle Koon got? You sure dont know what! But also you can write like his bank statement is in front of you.
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:13 PM | Report Abuse
And you got your facts wrong. He is not a billionaire, but a millionaire.
Right now after that burn, he should still have about RM100m, but barely. I doubt he has Rm200m.
2018-12-03 17:27
Alright. If you say so, it must be the case.
I've reread what i've written a few times, and it still made sense to me. I have no idea how its a completely different world.
But, that must really be the case. I'm planning to read market wizards just so if i can see it better.
Probably going to get a headache, but for the reference experience, no choice.
===
Posted by probability > Dec 3, 2018 05:19 PM | Report Abuse
Ok Jon, looking at your feedback below...i can say you have a very different world which you are living as someone just said.
I must be living in my own world (unreal) as perceived by you.
Very difficult to bridge this two world...
At least i managed to get a glimpse of your world (dont wish to be there frankly)..
may be we can discuss again when either of our world comes a little closer in the future..
bye for now
2018-12-03 17:28
Its called an educated guess.
It uses the same thought process that one needs to go through life, value shares, intereact with people.
You either lack it, or you're purposely ignoring it.
Im not sure which is worse.
====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:27 PM | Report Abuse
You are his stomach worm? How you know?
Your brain really got big problem. People's wealth you know?
"Right now after that burn, he should still have about RM100m, but barely."
Can see your thinking. You know how much Uncle Koon got? You sure dont know what! But also you can write like his bank statement is in front of you.
2018-12-03 17:29
Everyone also say this Jon live in different world. But then to Jon, he is the only one correct. Everyone else living in wrong world, everyone brain is short curcuit, no one else read as much as him, only Jon is correct.
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Posted by probability > Dec 3, 2018 05:19 PM | Report Abuse
Ok Jon, looking at your feedback below...i can say you have a very different world which you are living as someone just said.
I must be living in my own world (unreal) as perceived by you.
Very difficult to bridge this two world...
At least i managed to get a glimpse of your world (dont wish to be there frankly)..
may be we can discuss again when either of our world comes a little closer in the future..
bye for now
2018-12-03 17:31
When people like you say something like that.
Im not sure to be comforted to worried. On one hand, the crowd is defintiely stupid, having gone through the statistics at a friends brokerage firm.
On the other hand, i'm constantly worried, because there is no way im right all the time. But for some reason, its almost never the people i meet in real life who show me that, but those i can only meet in books.
Oh well, good luck to us both i guess. Dont be another statistic in my friend brokerage.
You know the ones who win big ones, margin and sailaing, lose even more. Then diam d, no trade for a few months while pay back debt.
Before after sometime, start back again same pattern.
I noticed you said this is a new account after awhile. Good luck!
=====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:31 PM | Report Abuse
Everyone also say this Jon live in different world. But then to Jon, he is the only one correct. Everyone else living in wrong world, everyone brain is short curcuit, no one else read as much as him, only Jon is correct.
2018-12-03 17:37
As usual, call names again. Show your low level of intelligence, Jon.
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:27 PM | Report Abuse
You must have failed your reading comprehension.
"i3value is a retard."
That statement is useless mah. must support with reasoning and example mah.
unless for you, you only need that to make your conclusions lah.
In that case youre an analyst's dream. Just say "buy", you rush to sailang!
2018-12-03 17:37
Comprehension fail again.
Student mistakes an "example", for an "accusation".
May be due to deep held insecurity.
Alright this is low, its like insulting children. It only brings me down.
Ciao!
====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:37 PM | Report Abuse
As usual, call names again. Show your low level of intelligence, Jon.
2018-12-03 17:39
This is call the need to get people praise you and agree to your thoughts. Obviously major insecurity deep inside.
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I write to crystlize my thoughts, to organize my thinking better. Writing is like thinking, but on steroid.
2018-12-03 17:42
Your writing style is always try to attack others but you leave a way out for yourself when people criticise you. So obvious. Want to insult others but yet scared other people see you lowly. This is call snake. Not smart or intelligent.
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:39 PM | Report Abuse
Comprehension fail again.
Student mistakes an "example", for an "accusation".
May be due to deep held insecurity.
Alright this is low, its like insulting children. It only brings me down.
Ciao!
2018-12-03 17:46
There we go again. You so sure of yourself obviously you will never see anything wrong with your own thoughts lah.
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:28 PM | Report Abuse
I've reread what i've written a few times, and it still made sense to me. I have no idea how its a completely different world.
2018-12-03 17:49
When the person disagreeing is you, i'm naturally more confident of my conclusions.
If it was say kc, or ricky, or 3iii. I will need to think much deeper about the tradeoffs and my perspective.
Look, if you're going to crticize, be specific and elucidate.
Do you mean i leave a way out, or i have considered most factors well?
Look, its very easy to prove me wrong. Like my recent rcecap piece.
Just show me its overvalued, or my thinking on the economics is completely wrong.
Show me if they are hiding impairments elsewhere, cash is not real, valuations actually very high. Etc etc.
Thats it.
====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 05:49 PM | Report Abuse
There we go again. You so sure of yourself obviously you will never see anything wrong with your own thoughts lah.
2018-12-03 17:58
Insult, insult, insult. Call names. That your nature.
Again clear signs of insecurity and lack of self confidence.
2018-12-03 18:06
What do you think?
You think only you know what you are doing but others cant see?
Aiyoh.......... You really think you are the smartest person in the world right?
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Posted by Jon Choivo > Dec 3, 2018 05:58 PM | Report Abuse
Do you mean i leave a way out, or i have considered most factors well?
2018-12-03 18:08
Why ask me talk rcecap to you? I didnt even mention rcecap. This is not even your rcecap blog.
2018-12-03 18:10
Brother,
Do you even see the accusations you levied against me in your very first message to me? As well as every subsequent one?
My gosh, it really is true. people are most blind to their own flaws.
Haha, dont get your panties in a bunch. Now you just look bad to be honest.
And i look even worse for intereacting with you, to deign your insults with a reply.
Its really true. Never argue with a fool. They'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience!
====
Posted by i3Value > Dec 3, 2018 06:06 PM | Report Abuse
Insult, insult, insult. Call names. That your nature.
Again clear signs of insecurity and lack of self confidence.
2018-12-03 18:12
This so funny. You reply my accusation of you being insulting by throwing more insults.
Your brain ok?
I quote you:
“My gosh, it really is true. people are most blind to their own flaws.”
2018-12-03 18:20
Jon is still very raw.. Eventually, one way or another, he will learn.
Let's celebrate each other's flaws by making peace with our own intentions if coming to i3 in the first place.. To get trading ideas
In any event, if one still couldn't release their angst, consider jacky chan's reply to Chris tucker in Rush Hour
CT: how are you always so cool?
JC: that's because I don't argue with stupid people. Everytime I get into one with them, I just reply, 'You're Right!
CT: that's so wrong, man. You'll be a pussy to take shit lying down
JC: You're Right
2018-12-03 18:55
I3value why you want argue with an idiot?Let idiot show off and we just like watching comedy.
2018-12-03 19:21
Potential Ghost.
Unlike you, i did not lose money in jaks until cry father and mother.
In fact, i might be buying some soon at such potentially wonderful discount!
2018-12-03 19:23
Jon, you have a habit taking note of forumer lose money. And then you use it to hit them. Leveraging on other people misery and losses is not cool. Very low
2018-12-03 19:31
Jon Choivo always tell people go put money in FD. I want to ask Jon. Your returns this year more than FD or not?
If not, maybe you also better off putting money in FD
2018-12-03 19:34
Calvin thinks Jon Choivo is many times better than Plp qqq3
He has input that has value
And because he is young with built in Ben graham inoculation he shall find the right path to investment success
After many have gone bankrupt Jonathan Choivo will still be around for a very long time
CHEERS!!!
2018-12-03 19:39
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Jon Choivo,
You just dont get it that a business is a team game; the leader of the pack will not and does not need to know everything or be skilled in every aspect. Keyword TEAM. I attribute this to you being a small scale guy who hasnt seen the world out there.
Note: If you take KYY's words literally that he doesnt know how to read financial statements, then it really shows your limited ability to comprehend and interpret.
Back to reading financial statements. I have read some of your many postings in i3. Honestly, I find your accounting technical skills rather limited (in fact flawed many times) and your interpretations of financial statements generally average. You claim that you have an audit background. I dare say that you are not a product of the Big 4. (Yes, it shows.) Maybe a 2nd tier firm or maybe a medium sized. And you certainly did not spend a long time in audit - probably left after you obtain your MIA membership. Senior or Assistant Manager level at best. You do not show the skills, knowledge and maturity of at least a Big 4 manager. I stand to be corrected.
And I can tell that you are not trained at an investment bank. Again, I stand to be corrected but I am pretty confident.
What you write in i3 (with quotes and names throwing of so and so here and there) may impress the average layman. Some of us here who live in the financial industry however will not buy into your boasting and 'lagak pandai'.
There is nothing wrong with you writing your opinion in 13. It is after all a public site. But you should learn to handle your ego and arrogance. It is quite a pain to read your downright rude postings.
2018-12-03 12:59