Posted by KClow > 2022-04-27 21:34 | Report Abuse

Tell us johnie boy and sardin
Why dont you buy cpo directly from commodities market
Since you like talking about cpo so much

Posted by KClow > 2022-04-27 21:38 | Report Abuse

Johnie boy and sardin
Tell us united plantations shareholders
Why you dont just buy cpo from the commodities market directly?
Cpo up 8% today

Posted by KClow > 2022-04-27 21:40 | Report Abuse

Let me tell you boy!
Because here we invest in companies!
Not cpo
As we buy apple shares not because of iphone price.
Now please stop talking cpo and move on with your sharing

Posted by KClow > 2022-04-27 21:44 | Report Abuse

Johnie boy
I do like SOP and taann too
So you got that correct

Posted by James Ng > 2022-04-27 22:17 | Report Abuse

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/general/2022-04-27-story-h1622320545.jsp
[转贴] [Video:浅谈UNITED PLANTATIONS BERHAD, UTDPLT, 2089] - James的股票投资James Share Investing

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-27 23:43 | Report Abuse

The profit margin for refinery is usually very thin so I can understand why a refinery would very much want to hedge the raw material (CPO bought from plantation) or it may go bankrupt anytime. If I were the refinery plant owner I would like to hedge 100% of the raw material to lock in my thin margin (because refinery business aim should be earning the thin margin of refinery work rather than earning extra by risking its capital). Selling price of the FG (processed CPO) is usually pre-determined and agreed with customer. Then, there are only two possibilities that I would make a temporary loss: (i) unable to receive the cheap CPO from supplier on time and forced to buy the expensive ones at spot price (ii) unable to deliver the FG (processed CPO) to customer on time and therefore have to buy the FG from the market at expensive spot price to meet delivery schedule, or when both scenario (i) and (ii) happen at the same time. I say this is temporary because for scenario (i), I can sell the raw CPO to the market at a time not too long from the time I bought the expensive one, where the price might have gone up or down a little bit, or just refine it and sell at current high price, whereas for scenario (ii), I can sell the FG that produced at later time to open market at a lagged price which could be up or down a little bit from my FG buying cost earlier. I think 2022 Q1 report (note B1 & B2) sounds that it is scenario (i). Probably that explains why there is a huge spike in inventories from a steady level of RM 139 m to RM 254 m as this might be due to the cheap raw CPO that arrive at the gate of refinery mill late. (The external sales of plantation segment might be referring to selling to its joint venture UniFuji whereas internal sales are going to Unitata). @SSLee, I agree the profit of plantation segment is a lot easier to predict and the plantation segment result is very close to my prediction. @Johnzhang, I agree that the forward contract price signed last year was too low but UP had just appointed a new non-executive director who has accounting background which could be a good sign going forward.

Posted by ooihk899 > 2022-04-27 23:55 | Report Abuse

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3175738/indonesia-stuns-markets-it-widens-palm-oil-export-ban?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Posted by virust > 2022-04-28 05:24 | Report Abuse

UP is the best among all Planters with lower production cost of 1300/MT which mean they did excellent on operation management but when looking into hedging policy they know how to short the commodity during CPO price going downward should know how to close the position or reduce when CPO price going upward.

Posted by monorail > 2022-04-28 08:08 | Report Abuse

UP's loss is their customers gain. One of their biggest customer is AAK in Sweden www.aak.com . Their latest financial report shows operating profit at all time high due to higher operating profit per kilo.

Posted by somo1 > 2022-04-28 10:06 | Report Abuse

First class planter but absolutely incompetent finance/ treasury people they have. Hope they don't bankrupt the firm one day as the result of their reckless so-called hedging activities. To me, it's more like speculating that they're doing. From the 1Q2022 report, do take note of their sizeable USD forward selling contracts. With CPO revisiting 7000, and USD nearing 4.39 ringgit, paper losses in the coming quarter would likely worsen. No wonder, interest earned from their bank deposits dwindled as they'd need to top up on the margins, which pay them NO interests at all on their massive CPO Short contracts as prices continue to surge.

Posted by DickyMe > 2022-04-28 10:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by ukoris > 2022-04-28 11:51 | Report Abuse

Today INNO, SOP, bkawan, etc all other palm oil stocks went up 3-5%, but United plantation down 4% pula. What happen?

Posted by Traderjoes > 2022-04-28 12:23 | Report Abuse

today ex date 85sen div

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-04-28 12:36 | Report Abuse

@somo1, I fully share your concern. With CPO price substantially higher than as at 31st March 2022, I am sure there will be another blow to hedging loss for all the FCPO commodity sales contract remain outstanding .
The cash depletion and huge negative cash flow per latest QR should deserve all shareholders to be worrying.
(1) Per Balance sheet, Cash+short term funds drop $254 mil yoy (from $478 mil to $224 mil) - Shareholders should ask where has this $254 mil gone to especially when revenue is substantially higher .
(2) Per cashflow statement, cashflow from operations is a whopping negative ($224 mil) - this is absolutely impossible for plantation company enjoying record high CPO price !
(3) Operating payment of $656 mil is a whopping 142 % increase yoy - very strange , pay for what operating expenses ?
(4) Contributing to negative cashflow is the placement of deposit for derivative or hedges amounting to $167 mil - this is margin call and /or loss from squaring off some of the derivative sales contract ?

Posted by Abba84 > 2022-04-28 12:48 | Report Abuse

Pinky,supersingh...so silence tdy!

Posted by 1LegKick > 2022-04-28 13:12 | Report Abuse

I just place an order for 8000 shares and congratulations to all the shareholders who will be receiving their dividend soon.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 13:15 | Report Abuse

Sorry... found a mistake just now. Most of the operating payment (656 m) should be operating expenses that appear in the income statement (586 m).

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 13:20 | Report Abuse

The operating expenses is very high (586 m) because of significant increase of production cost per ha (increases from RM 1.2 k+ / MT to RM 1.8 k + / MT, due to fertilizer cost increase, etc. etc.) Where as the balance 70 m I'm not sure (could be replanting etc, no sure). But just under this line in cash flow statement there is 167 m for "(Placement)/recovery of deposits in derivative operations". I think this 167 m is the major part of the cash outflow compare to balance sheet as at 31st Dec.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 13:22 | Report Abuse

This 167m adds to the receivable (because it is recoverable). This is the deposit paid when FCPO is sold to ensure customer that you as a producer wont breach the contract and sell the goods to other customer at higher price in future.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 13:23 | Report Abuse

So you can see the surge in receivables also.

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:48 | Report Abuse

:-((((

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:50 | Report Abuse

If you guys remember sometime bak i did complain about this issue.forward selling. N i kena hentam kaw kaw.
I liquided 50%my position before the ex date.
I withdraw my rm28 target n agree with john my fren.

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:52 | Report Abuse

Utdplnt is no queen of plantations its the eunuch of plantations. Hope u guys see now why i was cursing it..but i will still hold 50% for dividend as i got it cheap.

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:53 | Report Abuse

I m shocked my the incompetence of utdplnt finance n treasury department. Like i said they have no clue. Loss in unit trusts n shiitt

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:54 | Report Abuse

Dont waste ur time on reports. Its all the forwward selling . I will buy back once its lower..good luck guys.

Posted by ooihk899 > 2022-04-28 13:55 | Report Abuse

Brovo unker.

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 13:56 | Report Abuse

I agree with klow n john on sop n taann.those r good for short to medium term. I put utdplnt funds there.

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 14:11 | Report Abuse

I wont be commenting here anymore as i still have utdplnt n dont want to be negative to others here. So stop using my name or asking for me :-))
I m off to klk n sop forum hope they dont fuk us all up with forward selling there too shiit..lol..bye

Posted by investor2021trading > 2022-04-28 14:45 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sardin > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse
Sorry... found a mistake just now. Most of the operating payment (656 m) should be operating expenses that appear in the income statement (586 m). But just under this line in cash flow statement there is 167 m for "(Placement)/recovery of deposits in derivative operations". I think this 167 m is the major part of the cash outflow compared to balance sheet as at 31st Dec. This 167m adds to the receivable (because it is recoverable).

**************************************************************************************************
So a truth was revealed!

UP is among d oldest plantation in Malaysia n has pioneered a lot of changes n improvements to d oil palm industry in South East Asia such as best plantation's management n practices, ffb handling, mechanization works n "state of the art" palm oil milling!

So, just buy n hold long term! At this discounted share price i.e. after ex-dividend adjustment, price fall before n after ex-dividend, investors shouldn't b too concerned about this QR as coming QR will b very much better!





finally a truth was revealed! just buy

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 16:17 | Report Abuse

Utd Plant is set up as a marathon runner champion & not a sprinter mah!

Thats why Utd employ all types of hedges to allow them to make sustained profit in the long run mah!

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 17:29 | Report Abuse

Dear friends, so far I assume that
(i) all the FFB produced by the UP plantation segment are processed by UP owned refineries to become refined palm oil, and
(ii) Unitata and UniFuji refine almost only CPO from UP owned crops where the external crops only contribute to less than 5% as the feedstock for these two refineries
Am I right? Did anyone study this before? Thanks

Posted by Abba84 > 2022-04-28 17:50 | Report Abuse

It is very obvious their Qtr fact sheets has made investors very uneasy .

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 18:02 | Report Abuse

Dear friends, so far I assume that
(i) all the FFB produced by the UP plantation segment are processed by UP owned refineries to become refined palm oil, and <--- I have already verified this is true (for crops in Malaysia)
(ii) Unitata and UniFuji refine almost only CPO from UP owned crops where the external crops only contribute to less than 5% as the feedstock for these two refineries <--- This should be correct according to the AR but just wanna check if I understand correctly
Am I right? Did anyone study this before? Thanks

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 18:03 | Report Abuse

@Abba84, :) Not sure for the rest but I know one thing that is more important than investment profit / loss, i.e., being a more sophisticated investor.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 18:05 | Report Abuse

If things could be understood correctly, investors regardless of their capital size and age will be smart enough to make their own independent judgment. So it is more meaningful to discuss the knowledge than buying / selling opinion.

Posted by DickyMe > 2022-04-28 18:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by investor2021trading > 2022-04-28 20:00 | Report Abuse

Sardin, why this guy DickyMe posted twice "RM8.30 coming soon" ?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 20:16 | Report Abuse

U need understand the Revenue of Refinery are much more than the plantation revenue, meaning plantation generate sales rm 173m whereas refinery sales is Rm 465m loh!

The refinery revenue is 2.7x of plantation mah!

That means the refinery revenue is 2.7x bigger than plantation mah!

Furthermore plantation revenue are scattered n cover indonesia as well, thus it is likely not all the raw material use from own plantations, likely only 20% to 25% of the raw material use are source from own plantation loh!

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-28 20:25 | Report Abuse

WTF
CHINTEK DOUBLE PROFITS???

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 20:32 | Report Abuse

If u study refinery business alot of it is long term contract some exceeding more than 1 yrs loh!

Taking this into consideration....in order to secure the contract....the refinery will need to price by on long term contract price for between 6 mths to 1 yr loh!

But the raw material input can only be hedge base on cpo future contract about 3 mths.
Also the own plantation may act as a hedge by selling at acceptable fixed future price to the refinery loh!

As a result....in the case of raw material price keep going up....The refinery will suffer bcos...the selling price is fixed whereas its input price can only fixed within 3mths to 6mths!

Since Every refinery contract secure are future contract & its turnover are all mark against mkt....at the qtrly reporting dates eventhough it is still under work in progress....UP need to recognise potential gain or loss mah!

Thus in this scenario gain or losses is over exaggerated bcos the contract value can be very big & span over many qtrs loh!

For refinery the falling input prices will be highly profitable whereas the trend of increasing input prices will affect its margin, this is despite the company had hedge its input but not all exposure can be covered due to timing difference & the size and length of the contract mah!

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 20:36 | Report Abuse

Then people say refinery business lousy loh!

Not true loh! Refinery margin give a normal gross margin of 8% to 10% but can huge volume in sales.....having this gross margin....the refinery need to undertake....the selling price to end buyer loh!

With this extra 8% to 10% margin.....is it sufficient leh ??
Raider say it is sufficient loh!

Thus over the long run the long run the refinery will make good profit loh!

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 20:41 | Report Abuse

Looking at UP segmentation result....the plantation make Rm 169m profit whreas the refinery makes Rm 92m losses...giving it a profit of Rm 77m loh!

In future the refinery will turn into a profit....like the management say mah!

Then UP profit will be much higher loh!

Posted by stockraider > 2022-04-28 20:48 | Report Abuse

If u look at last yr result 2021...UP plantation makes Rm 457m and refinery profit is Rm 22m giving it an overall profit of Rm 478m per yr loh!

That means on the average plantation makes Rm 114m and refinery Rm 6m per qtr loh!

that means UP q1 2022 plantation performance is doing much better at Rm 169m whereas the refinery losses of Rm 92m fall far behind loh!

Things is likely reverse in the next qtr loh!

Posted by Pinky > 2022-04-28 23:01 | Report Abuse

Loh loh loh hahahahaha

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 23:27 | Report Abuse

@investor2021trading, does it irritate you? :)
@Stockraider, I've got the answer from AR page 95. For Unitata, 96% of FFB are from own estate. For UniFuji, 59% are from own palm oil mill.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 23:34 | Report Abuse

@Stockraider, when I look up FCPO prices, trade can be done as far as year 2023 from now but you said it could only be contracted 3 months ahead. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

Posted by Sardin > 2022-04-28 23:39 | Report Abuse

I won't give up to learn until I have no question. :)

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-29 07:11 | Report Abuse

After analysing chintek results. I think utdplnt results were pathetic. To say the least

Posted by supersinginvestor > 2022-04-29 08:16 | Report Abuse

I dont think reading the report can help..the issue with utdplnt is.
ARROGANCE BACKED BY STUPEADITY
they blame. Everything n everyone. Labour issues. Fertilizer costs. Lol...
Except theirvown stupeadity..thats the issue..arrogance means they wont learn n change..thats the issue i have with utdplnt. Shiit qr results will last as long as they dont get it..

Posted by LossAversion > 2022-04-29 08:44 | Report Abuse

who cares about the report as long as dividends have not been shit over the years. If UP falls, i dont think other plantations can be extremely fantastic either!