Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 05:13 | Report Abuse

INSAS history of buybacks is only up to 2015. Why?

16-Jan-2015 16-Jan-2015 Buyback 200,000 0.890 0.895 View Detail
16-Jan-2015 16-Jan-2015 Buyback 200,000 0.890 0.895 View Detail
12-Jan-2015 12-Jan-2015 Buyback 100,000 0.820 0.820 View Detail
09-Jan-2015 09-Jan-2015 Buyback 200,000 0.825 0.830 View Detail
06-Jan-2015 12-Jan-2015 Buyback 600,000 0.775 0.830 View Detail
06-Jan-2015 06-Jan-2015 Buyback 300,000 0.775 0.775 View Detail
23-Dec-2014 23-Dec-2014 Buyback 200,000 0.810 0.820 View Detail
23-Dec-2014 23-Dec-2014 Buyback 200,000 0.810 0.820 View Detail
16-Dec-2014 16-Dec-2014 Buyback 200,000 0.755 0.755 View Detail
16-Dec-2014 16-Dec-2014 Buyback 200,000 0.755 0.755 View Detail
14-Oct-2013 14-Oct-2013 Buyback 200,000 0.590 0.595 View Detail
11-Oct-2013 11-Oct-2013 Buyback 100,000 0.600 0.600 View Detail
10-Oct-2013 10-Oct-2013 Buyback 300,000 0.610 0.610 View Detail
09-Oct-2013 14-Oct-2013 Buyback 997,700 0.590 0.610

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 05:16 | Report Abuse

Today INSAS history is at the lowest point, it is beyond a screaming buy. Yet the management does nothing. Why? What is the rationale? To protect the director that has 33% and not willing to trigger mgo? If not willing then why not give out a part of that 1.7 billion (330 million is a good start) on a special dividend to all shareholders. A special rm 1 dividend to long term shareholders.

Then I will believe INSAS is doing the right thing for investors and the price will surely go up.

But I believe they cannot, and will not.

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 05:19 | Report Abuse

When a growth company like serba dinamik is willing to buy back shares when management considers it undervalued, then you know the company is doing something.

20-Mar-2020 20-Mar-2020 Buyback 2,876,500 1.230 1.300 View Detail
16-Mar-2020 16-Mar-2020 Buyback 5,300,000 1.500 1.560 View Detail
13-Mar-2020 16-Mar-2020 Buyback 6,884,500 1.500 1.600 View Detail
13-Mar-2020 13-Mar-2020 Buyback 1,584,500 1.590 1.600 View Detail
10-Mar-2020 10-Mar-2020 Buyback 1,518,000 1.840 1.850 View Detail
09-Mar-2020 11-Mar-2020 Buyback 9,018,000 1.840 1.990 View Detail
09-Mar-2020 09-Mar-2020 Buyback 7,500,000 1.879 1.990

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 05:25 | Report Abuse

This is what INSAS should be doing when it is selling for 20% of NTA. Buyback shares and increase value.

Sslee, you need to be rational in your investments and ask the important questions. If INSAS is the MOST undervalued company in Bursa, then why is no one touching it, including management?

>>>>>>>>>

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/investors-pounce-softbank-shares-re...

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 05:51 | Report Abuse

My advice to you: if you are looking for get rich schemes to gain 100% in 1 year, then stocks is not something you should be putting money into. You would be far better served buying over someone else plantation in Sabah, Sarawak or Perak, and improving it. You seem to have a knack for running palm oil plantations. Or are you the type to just tell people what to do, and not get your hands dirty sometimes?

You seem to think buying stocks is an easy activity, just click a button and press buy. Gain 10%, click a button sell. Easy peasy. But nothing in life is ever easy.

It takes me 3 months to research into a stock, 5 year experience in the industry trying to find out the players, suppliers and game hangers. Another 3 years trying to understand the long term growth opportunities of the industry before you put a single cent into buying the stock.

I spent years in the O&G industry before knowing how to differentiate PCHEM versus lctitan, serbadk from the sumatec and carimin. I have my own palm smallholding in tawau and worked on refinery with boilermech before buying QL. I have worked with gkent before I even considered buying their shares last year. I have helped out paysys ingenico with some projects before giving stoneco a second look, I have followed yinson for 2 years before buying into it. My wife works for public bank before I learned how they structured their loan portfolio.

Believe me when I say to properly scuttlebutt, you need 10 years of knowledge before you can click the button. Even then, your stocks can drop in a blink and profit turns into losses.

Buying stocks is risky. When you think buying a company just because it is selling below nta( value investing margin of safety) is safe, that is when you do not look at ALL the factors. There are many other types of margins of safety, which I am sure you are starting to realize, after disasters like xinquan( NTA margin of safety), hengyuan (PE margin of safety), you will start to realize things like management ownership ( share buyback, shareholder margin of safety), consistency ( growth of earnings and revenues/debt margin of safety), performance ( ROE margin of safety).

The goal is not to make you rich. It is to help you make better decisions. When you finally start to like analyzing companies, doing valuation and reading about reports for fun? Then you will be rich automatically.


>>>>>>

Dear Philip,
Can you please refrain from smearing the good name of INSAS BOD and management team with your wild and malicious accusation of game the system without any clear evident or fact?

I had met and talk to Dato’ Dr Tan on INSAS Tech venture (challenge, success and failure rate) and Dato’ Wong on business rationale.

My advice to you, please empathize with those going through difficult time during this Covid-19 crisis and seeing their Investment value fall by more than 50%. Please do not spread fake news to create fear that does not benefit anyone. If you have crystal ball please tell us what shares to buy now that will give us 100% gain in 1 year time, spare us your lecture on quality investment for long term of 10 years for no one know are we still alive in 10 year time.

Thank you

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 06:37 | Report Abuse

Clear evidence or fact? I don't know if you are reading the same quarterly reports that I am, but it is written there in the notes.

Group’s summary
The Group reported revenue of RM85.2 million and a pre-tax profit of RM54.8 million for the
months period ended 31 December 2019 as compared to revenue of RM96.8 million and a pre-
tax profit of RM39.5 million reported in the corresponding period in the preceding year. The
review of performance by divisions is as follows:-
Financial services and credit & leasing division
The unit reported higher revenue and pre-tax profit of RM36.2 million and RM19.3 million for the
six months period ended 31 December 2019 as compared to the corresponding period in the
preceding year of RM28.1 million and RM10.5 million respectively, mainly due to higher revenue
generated by the structure finance unit, higher brokerage and corporate advisory fee income
generated by the stock broking and corporate finance advisory units and
<<< higher unrealised gain
on fair value changes of financial assets at fair value through profit or loss. >>>>

Investment holding and trading division
The Investment unit reported lower revenue of RM13.9 million for the six months period ended
31 December 2019 as compared to the corresponding period in the preceding year of RM30.8
million mainly due to lower trading activities in the current financial period.
Despite the lower revenue in the current financial period, the Investment unit reported higher
pre-tax profit of RM8.2 million for the six months period ended 31 December 2019 (six mo nths
period ended 31 December 2018: pre-tax loss of -RM21.6 million) mainly due to
<<<< unrealised gain
on fair value changes of financial assets at fair value through profit or loss of RM2.4 million and
lower unrealised loss on foreign exchange of -RM0.3 million in the current financial period as
compared to unrealised fair value loss of -RM21.9 million and unrealised loss on foreign
exchange of -RM5.9 million respectively in the corresponding period in the preceding year. >>>>>

Technology and IT-related manufacturing, trading and services division

The Technology unit reported lower revenue of RM2.4 million for the six months period SHARE ended
31 December 2019 as compared to the corresponding period in the preceding year of RM6.2
million due to lower sales of trading products in the current financial period.
The Technology unit reported lower pre-tax profit of RM21.6 million for the six months period
ended 31 December 2019 (six months period ended 31 December 2018: RM47.4 million) mainly
due to
<<<<lower gain on disposal of shares in an associate company of RM6. 6 million and lower
contribution from Inari Amertron Berhad Group of RM16.0 million (six months period ended 31
December 2018: RM24.4 million and RM21.8 million respectively).>>>>

Now that the value of assets has dropped by half, and disposal of shares to prop up INSAS business model is down to 1.14 at today's prices what do you think will happen to the next few quarters? What cash? There is no cash, everything is unrealized earnings. What happens when you try to realize EARNINGS today? Force sell those shares? What value do you get for INSAS today?

That is what I mean by gaming the system, UNREALIZED "fair value" gains versus cold hard cash flow. But you know what is REALIZED? YES, EXPENSES AND SHARE DILUTION.

Latest quarter results:

8.47 million administrative expenses
5.69 million operating expenses
5.181 million finance costs
22.396 million in cogs ( explain to me why 4.958 million of depreciation is lumped in here?)


>>>>>>>>


Sslee Dear Philip,
Can you please refrain from smearing the good name of INSAS BOD and management team with your wild and malicious accusation of game the system without any clear evident or fact?

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 07:21 | Report Abuse

Now, let me give you an example of how to game the system.

Let's use a real world example.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/insas-buys-199-stake-diversified-gateway-rm128m

Let's say I buy 20% shares in a company called dgsb. In sept 2017 it is valued at 0.07( after consolidation). When I buy that 20%, the value of the company jumps to 30 cents in early 2018. So my valuation of my company it to record an UNREALIZED gain of 5x my initial investment, in this case 12.8 million in investment is valued at 60 million. WOW! But is this real cash or accounting land? Not until you sell it. And INSAS didn't sell. ( Latest report 25% ownership ). So what is their realized earnings if they tried to sell their stake of the currently worth 40 million ringgit company? Definitely they will take a loss, as dgsb has not grown or performed at all. No revenue growth, quarterly losses, no dividends, no share buybacks.

Now, you take the same activity spread out to all of the other companies it holds a stake in. Money from shareholders and dividends and private placements and warrants. You see the same pattern occurring. Overpaying for lousy companies, declare losses ( funny accounting indeed at some of these microcap subsidiaries).

Fake news? Tell me I am wrong. This is just 1 company they hold a substantial share in. How about the other companies they put money into like vigcash, melium, omesti, dgsb, the biotech company. I read every single one of the subsidiaries annual and quarterly reports and tracked back to their accounting calculations. Did YOU?

How much value was being inflated on UNREALIZED value, while real cash from m&a trading and stockbroking and inari dividends and share sales pumped away as "expenses" and investments?

This is why INSAS will never buy back shares with their "cash" and assets everywhere. They can't.

By selling their "assets" they will have to REALIZE value. And by REALIZING value you will find INSAS had very little CASH generating assets that people would pay high prices for. They will get a poor price indeed for their investments should they decide to move these illiquid businesses.

So you tell me, would you have received better investment value by putting your shareholder money 12.8 million into a lousy company dgsb with no past history of growth, dividends, revenue, earnings or share buybacks or put it into companies like hartalega (3.5 to 6.5 from 2017 to 2020), Nestle (85 to 137), aeoncredit (10 to 15 covid not withstanding), hong Leong bank (13 to 21 by end 2019).

Why would INSAS gamble in such a way?

Thank you.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-03-27 07:28 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
When I see a crook I can almost immediately know he is a crook and I had no hesitation to say so to him in his face publicly and report him to SC and Bursa. But when I see a sincere person doing his best for the benefit of company and shareholders, I try to understand him, accepting his limitation (they are enable to buy as of ambiguity SC regulation on definition of PAC) and giving him credit where credit is due.

As of share buy-back, I remember attending CSCSTEL AGM asking the Board on buy-back/sell-back policy. The Board replied they can only do buyback if the price falls below NTA this is to protect NTA dilution or misused of Buy-back to support price for insider benefit.

Please also spare me your long lecture on how long you study and knowing the companies before you bought the shares. Tell me how long you study SERBA and do you know any SERBA Board members?

Thank you
P/S: I am not going to go through the financial report with you except telling you associate companies do not contribute the top line but the bottom line and please read the AGM minutes on bank deposit and borrowing. By the way how much unrealised loss your shares holding (Pchem and others) incur from quarter to quarter if you do a fair value gain/loss thro’ profit and loss base on mark to market.

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 07:46 | Report Abuse

I have been studying serba and mabel since qqq333 promoted it in 2018. I bought when the price dropped to great lows.

Thank you.

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 07:49 | Report Abuse

INSAS nta is rm2.68 versus today price of 0.47. like you said, immediate profit if management buyback company own share. But why don't they buy back shares?

Thank you.

>>>>>>>

As of share buy-back, I remember attending CSCSTEL AGM asking the Board on buy-back/sell-back policy. The Board replied they can only do buyback if the price falls below NTA this is to protect NTA dilution or misused of Buy-back to support price for insider benefit.

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 07:52 | Report Abuse

I'm sorry sslee, this is sounds like smoke?. Can you clarify exactly what is the ambiguity. If QL ownership can be more than 60%, what is the issue here?

>>>>>>>

they are enable to buy as of ambiguity SC regulation on definition of PAC

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 07:53 | Report Abuse

Thank you.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-03-27 08:02 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
The issue is once Dato’ Sri Thong and PAC holding reach the threshold of 33% Dato’ Sri Thong need to offer conditional MGO.
For your information this is what Dato’ Wong replied to me last year on waiver.

Hi Mr Lee
Thanks for your past & continuous support & I personally have no objection to your proposed resolution. However, there are stringent processes, procedures and compliance requirements under the Bursa Listing Rules & Take-over Code that our CF advisers are looking into it and it is unlikely that we are able to make the waiver application in time for the approval of Insas shareholders by this coming AGM. We are seriously exploring this waiver proposal and if possible, we hope to initiate this waiver application process in year 2020.
Regards
wgk

Thank you

Posted by Philip ( Write To Me If You Need Help) > 2020-03-27 08:26 | Report Abuse

Since did not happen this year, or even after the warrants expiry date and stockraiders assumption. This is very obviously SMOKE.

Thank you.

>>>>>>


Sslee Dear Philip,
The issue is once Dato’ Sri Thong and PAC holding reach the threshold of 33% Dato’ Sri Thong need to offer conditional MGO.
For your information this is what Dato’ Wong replied to me last year on waiver.

Hi Mr Lee
Thanks for your past & continuous support & I personally have no objection to your proposed resolution. However, there are stringent processes, procedures and compliance requirements under the Bursa Listing Rules & Take-over Code that our CF advisers are looking into it and it is unlikely that we are able to make the waiver application in time for the approval of Insas shareholders by this coming AGM. We are seriously exploring this waiver proposal and if possible, we hope to initiate this waiver application process in year 2020.
Regards
wgk

Thank you
27/03/2020 8:02 AM

Posted by Sslee > 2020-03-27 08:42 | Report Abuse

haha,
There are smoke and fire every where so buy at your own risk after your own due diligence

Posted by leno > 2020-03-27 10:43 | Report Abuse

kekekekek ... NICE.

Posted by dragonslayer > 2020-03-30 15:39 | Report Abuse

Aiyo...apa khabar....long time didnt come here...walao...left below 50sen oredy kah...last time chase price can hit 90sen wo...why now lelong like nobody want leh...all the associate listed companies...no sell one kah..hold tight tight ine ......missed the boat again ...unrealised profit also gone kah...become unrealised loss kah..nvm lah..later market better..will go back higher again lah...cash rich mah...
..lol...aiyoyo...kikiki

Posted by 682pujut2b > 2020-04-12 10:12 | Report Abuse

“Honesty is a very expensive gift. Don’t expect it from cheap people.” Warren Buffett

Reference to
"Can you please refrain from smearing the good name of INSAS BOD and management team with your wild and malicious accusation of game the system without any clear evident or fact?
I had met and talk to Dato’ Dr Tan on INSAS Tech venture (challenge, success and failure rate) and Dato’ Wong on business rationale."

I am one of perhaps many lazzy investors who did not do sufficient personal home work and due diligence. By now, it has become a painful hind sight. Being innocent and naive is no excuse. Putting trust on opinions, insight promoted and publicised in this forum by people who may have knowledge of Insas( or may be vested interests) can become expensive lessons. We heard a lot in the year prior to the expiry of Insas -W on how grossly under value Insas shares had been in light of the then forthcoming maturation of INsas-W in Feb 2020, .., etc...

Would appreciate if Mr. SS Lee could enlighten on why Insas Directors and CEO were not seeing the huge under valuation of Insas shares and how on earth were they not buying Insas shares when it dropped to below RM0.90- RM0.80 ?

TQ.

DATO' DR TAN SENG CHUAN 19-Mar-2020 Acquired 100,000 0.378 View Detail
DATO' DR TAN SENG CHUAN 18-Mar-2020 Acquired 50,000 0.435 View Detail
DATO' DR TAN SENG CHUAN 17-Mar-2020 Acquired 50,000 0.490 View Detail
DATO' DR TAN SENG CHUAN 16-Mar-2020 Acquired 50,000 0.545 View Detail
DATO' DR TAN SENG CHUAN 13-Mar-2020 Acquired 100,000 0.602 View Detail

DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 14-Nov-2017 Disposed 280,000 0.325 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 13-Nov-2017 Disposed 400,000 0.342 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 07-Nov-2017 Disposed 170,000 0.374 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 06-Nov-2017 Disposed 750,000 0.368 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 03-Nov-2017 Disposed 155,000 0.370 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 02-Nov-2017 Disposed 150,000 0.370 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 01-Nov-2017 Disposed 165,000 0.370 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 31-Oct-2017 Disposed 200,000 0.385 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 30-Oct-2017 Disposed 200,000 0.381 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 27-Oct-2017 Disposed 434,600 0.380 View Detail
DATO' SRI THONG KOK KHEE 16-Jun-2017 Disposed 278,300 0.951 View Detail

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-12 11:06 | Report Abuse

Dear 682pujut2b,
No share buyback or should directors be considered as PAC are the reason holding back directors from buying Insas.
Dato' Sri Thong and his brother currently hold 32.96% just short of 0.04% to trigger 33% threehold of conditional MGO.
During my first 2017 AGM I argue for hours with the then CEO Dato' Sri Thong on need of better dividend and question him why he sold his Insas-wb? Since then he resign from CEO post and did not sell his Insas-wb anymore and Dato Wong become the new CEO and increase dividend from 1 cent to 2 cents.
Thank you

Posted by 682pujut2b > 2020-04-12 12:12 | Report Abuse

It is obvious from the above appended announcements that the only Insas Director who see some value in Insas below RM0.60 is Tan Seng Chuan. He put his money in and bought some shares between RM 0.602 and RM 0.378 per share. This is a possible indication of how much dividend Insas would likely be giving in future.All other directors do not seem to have faith in Insas share even at below RM0.50/shar !!!

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-12 12:24 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
For your information:

Persons acting in concert
Persons acting in concert are persons who, pursuant to an agreement, arrangement or understanding co-operate to:
 acquire jointly or severally voting shares of a company for the purpose of obtaining control of that company; or
 act jointly or severally for the purpose of exercising control over a company.
The agreement, arrangement or understanding may be formal or informal, written or oral, express or implied and may or may not have legal or equitable force.
This is very much a factual test and the Code sets out the criteria the SC will take into account when deciding whether a person is acting in concert. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the CMSA and the Code presumes certain persons to be acting in concert unless the contrary is established. The presumption applies in the case of, inter alia:
 a corporation and its related and associate corporations and a person who owns or controls 20% or more of the voting shares of such corporation and any parent, child, brother, sister, spouse, relative or related trust of such person;
 a corporation and any of its directors, parent, child, brother or sister of any of its directors or the spouse of any such director or any such relative or any related trusts;
 a corporation and any pension fund established by it;
 a person and any investment company, unit trust or other fund whose investments such person manages on a discretionary basis;
 a financial adviser and its client which is a corporation, where the financial adviser manages on a discretionary basis, the corporation's funds and has 10% or more of the voting shares in that corporation;
 a company, the directors of the company, and the shareholders of the company where there is an agreement, arrangement or understanding between the company or directors of the company, and shareholder of the company which restricts the director or the shareholder from offering or accepting a takeover offer for the voting shares or voting rights of the company or increasing or reducing his shareholdings in the company; and
 a person who is a partner of a partnership.
The associate corporation relationship is established if the corporation holds at least 20% of the voting shares.

Some important percentage thresholds
 5% - substantial shareholding level which requires the holder to disclose its substantial shareholding to the company, the SC and the stock exchange. Any change in interest and cessation of substantial shareholding is also required to be disclosed;
 over 10% - the holder may block compulsory acquisition;
 over 25% - the holder may block special resolutions of the company;
 33% - threshold for triggering the mandatory offer;
 over 50% - a mandatory offer ceases to be conditional;
 75% - holder can ensure special resolutions are passed;
 over 75% - the minimum public float required for companies listed on the stock exchange may not be satisfied;
 90% - generally, confers the ability to compulsorily acquire the remaining shares in the target company;
 90% - trading of the shares may be suspended by the stock exchange. The shares may also be de-listed by the stock exchange.

Thank you

Posted by 682pujut2b > 2020-04-12 12:51 | Report Abuse

I was quite sure before I bought Insas that 32.96% and MGO were not true reason behind and I knew it was more likely to be a make belief "Cock-and-Bull" story.

Even though I did some analysis and was fully aware that o Insas had shown poor business management performance indicators over the years , e. ROE and ROA (< 4%), very low DY, .. that Thong did not have a good reputation in the investment circle, Insas-WA (EX price > RM1.0), still fallen trap to nfor being disseminated in forum. Sigh !!

Posted by leno > 2020-04-12 16:53 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 18:19 | Report Abuse

Mr SS Lee

I am also caught with Insas shares

I think that the only way out is to ask the company to “ask” DS Thong to apply for a mgo waiver to allow the company to buy back its very under-valued shares

As you know, you asked Dato Wong to do that before last year’s AGM but he cited shortage of time for failure to do so

I hope you will ask him again

However, I would disagree with you as I feel it would be better if the company cancelled bought-back shares rather than distribute them

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 18:29 | Report Abuse

I worked out that if Insas bought back the balance of the 10% (39.3m shares) and cancelled them, it could buy back another 62.3m shares (i.e. 10% of the reduced share capital of 623.7m shares)

The above will easily enhance the NTA to above RM3 and should also have a positive effect on the share price

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 18:42 | Report Abuse

On a related note, the Insas directors shouldn’t say that they do not intend to do the buyback if it will cause DS Thong to have to make a mgo


This is preferring the major shareholder to the detriment of the rest of us

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 18:49 | Report Abuse

It is a bit nonsensical, after recommending the share buy back, to say with the next breath that they do not intend to do it

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-12 21:09 | Report Abuse

Dear kctai3007,
The bigest problems with Insas before is the WB and RPS going to expire on 25th Feb 2020. This problem is now in the past. Dato' Wong will have more rooms to play in unlocking the value of Insas.
Insas future is on 5G. Inari is taking the lead on RF with Omesti working with Huwei soft power

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-12 21:17 | Report Abuse

By the way the sharebuyback 10 % is valid for 1 year after AGM approval hence during next AGM the board still can distribute the current 30,327,291 treasury shares to cutrent shareholders and also waiver for MGO.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 23:37 | Report Abuse

I still think it’s better to cancel the treasury shares rather than distribute them but more importantly, DS Thong must ask for mgo waiver in order for Insas to resume share buyback

By the way, there is noting for Insas to do in this matter other than to “ask” DS Thong to ask for the mgo waiver which I am sure the SC can quickly approve subject to shareholder approval

Hope you can use your good relationship with Dato Wong to endure that the mgo spproval resolution is put forward for shareholder approval at this year’s AGM

Thanks

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-12 23:51 | Report Abuse

Ensure not endure

Posted by Philip (Honesty is expensive. Dont expect frm cheap ppl ) > 2020-04-13 06:45 | Report Abuse

To be honest, I really dont see the problem, as per takeover code, they can stop taking in MGO at 50% ownership. They currently have 33%, so they only need to obtain another 17%.

The rules state that the MGO has to be taken at the highest point within the past 6 months, or giving offer for a period of 21 days.

With the NTA and assets of RM2.65 (according to stockraider, RM3.6?), They can easily begin a huge buying spree and buy 10% of the market cap (38.8 milion) at drop down prices of RM0.56-0.72, and initiate MGO for the rest of the 7% at RM0.9. So for slightly under RM90 million (which they can easily borrow from the bank to cover assets of 1.6billion/2 (800 million)), they can make a unrealized profit of 700 million.

What bank would not cover that loan? How could they be so blind?

Why need a MGO waiver?

But a simple coffee and meeting with investment bankers and professionals regarding their opinion on this "deal" and the reputation of Thong in the investments circles, that is simple scuttlebutt at its best.

Instead of hours asking Thong why he doesn't buy his own shares, a few minutes asking other investment bankers and fund managers why they avoid buying shares in INSAS would yield a very different picture indeed.

But then again, they might just be jealous of the investment and business picking capability of Thong and their family, and INSAS will be a wonderful investment in the near future.

Who knows?

But I think the best qualitative view of INSAS is to treat it like a closed ended fund similar to ICAP business model, except they invest more in startups and microcaps. Rather than assets and dividends, look towards the earnings and revenue growth of all the subsidiaries and stockholdings of the company to define your investment philosophy in INSAS. If INSAS babies are consistently growing and building revenue without needing money from mama insas, then it will be a wonderful buy.

Else, the warren buffet view holds,

“Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce — gold’s price as I write this — its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.” [Gold @ $1400 Sept. 3, 2013 but overall point remains valid.]

“Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?"

Earnings and revenue growth always wins over shiny assets.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Even though I did some analysis and was fully aware that o Insas had shown poor business management performance indicators over the years , e. ROE and ROA (< 4%), very low DY, .. that Thong did not have a good reputation in the investment circle, Insas-WA (EX price > RM1.0), still fallen trap to nfor being disseminated in forum. Sigh !!
12/04/2020 12:51 PM

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 07:33 | Report Abuse

Philip

It all depends on DS Thong

I was so sure that he would convert his warrants and trigger a mgo at RM1 - a seeming no-brainer decision which would net him a few hundred million RM

For whatever reasons, DS Thong may still not want to make a mgo so the next best thing is to “ask” him to apply for a waiver so that Insas can continue to buy back the very under-valued shares

It’s a win-win for both Insas and us (all shareholders including us and DS Thong)

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 07:36 | Report Abuse

Btw, one cannot limit the mgo to 50%

It becomes unconditional at 50% plus 1 share, but remains open for acceptances until there is theoretically 100% acceptances

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 07:50 | Report Abuse

Actually, if I were the Insas MD, I would just distribute the inari shares as in-specie dividend

We would all get almost 1 inari share for every I Insas share

Just imagine, we would each get over RM1.50 and still retain our Insas shares!

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 08:43 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,

The RULES ON TAKE-OVERS, MERGERS AND COMPULSORY ACQUISITIONS required any shareholder together with PAC triggering the 33% - threshold will need to offer conditional MGO to acquired voting shares not owned by him and PAC. The condition is upon acceptance that will push his and PAC holding over 50% then conditional MGO ceases to be conditional.


Once the offer of conditional MGO sends to shareholder an independent advisor will be appointed to do a valuation of assets and give his advice whether the offer price is fair/unfair and reasonable/unreasonable. And the BOD will then base on independent advisor to advice the shareholders to accept or reject the offer.

Even if Dato’ Sri Thong will to convert his warrant and trigger MGO at RM1.00 the independent advisor verdict will be the offer price is unfair and unreasonable and the BOD will advice shareholders to reject the offer. Once the offer is rejected then Dato’ Sri Thong is forbid to trigger another MGO for 1 year periods. In this one year period any raiders can raid the INSAS and take over controlled of INSAS from Dato’ Sri Thong.

The current predicament is best solved by MGO waiver so that company can do shares buyback again. As of distribution of INARI shares to INSAS shareholders is detrimental to INARI business because many of INARI customers trust is base on the continuality of current INARI BOD and Management team. Without INSAS controlling shareholding the INARI BOD and Management team will be subjected to change by INARI new controlling shareholder.

Thank you

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 08:54 | Report Abuse

SS Lee

An offer for say RM1 will be very low but even if it is “not fair and not reasonable” it can still be made, and will succeed if more than 50% accept it

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 08:59 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007,
Why you want to sell INSAS for RM 1.00 when independent advisor valuation is many time more than RM 1.00?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 09:00 | Report Abuse

Because it’s now below 60 sen

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 09:01 | Report Abuse

SS Lee

Can I have your email address please?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 09:10 | Report Abuse

Dear Kctai3007,
Sorry I am not giving out personal email address in public forum. By the way TAGB is selling below the RM 0.28 VGO.
I know the value of INSAS but in no hurry to collect it.

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 09:15 | Report Abuse

And also by the way Philip blog on star selling below it cash holding

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 09:17 | Report Abuse

SS Lee

How do we communicate privately?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 09:32 | Report Abuse

SS Lee

I hope you will engage Dato Wong now to ask him to “ask” Dato Sri Thong to apply for mgo waiver so that we can consider it at this year’s AGM

Thanks

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 10:04 | Report Abuse

Dear kctai3007,
On sharebuyback waiver, sure I will ask Dato Wong to do so.

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 10:28 | Report Abuse

SS Lee

Just to repeat, there is nothing for Insas to do other than to ask DS Thong to apply for mgo waiver so be firm with Dato Wong if he tries to give you some sob story about why he can’t table the resolution at this year’s AGM

In fact, Insas should resume buyback today and trigger the mgo if the directors are really looking after the interests of ALL shareholders, and not just the controlling one.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-04-13 10:48 | Report Abuse

SSlee u talk like cock loh...!!

Dato Thong is given opportunity to takeover insas if he convert his warrant to shares b4 expiry mah...!!

Now he want waiver of GO, if breach 33%....why should minority shareholder agree leh ???

If Dato Thong, wants to buy more share why not he ask Insas to distribute their treasury share leh ???

Stop exploiting minority shareholder mah....!!

Just write to SC and Bursa inform them to reject any unreasonable request by major shareholder in respect of waiver loh...!!

Posted by Sslee > Apr 13, 2020 8:43 AM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,

The RULES ON TAKE-OVERS, MERGERS AND COMPULSORY ACQUISITIONS required any shareholder together with PAC triggering the 33% - threshold will need to offer conditional MGO to acquired voting shares not owned by him and PAC. The condition is upon acceptance that will push his and PAC holding over 50% then conditional MGO ceases to be conditional.


Once the offer of conditional MGO sends to shareholder an independent advisor will be appointed to do a valuation of assets and give his advice whether the offer price is fair/unfair and reasonable/unreasonable. And the BOD will then base on independent advisor to advice the shareholders to accept or reject the offer.

Even if Dato’ Sri Thong will to convert his warrant and trigger MGO at RM1.00 the independent advisor verdict will be the offer price is unfair and unreasonable and the BOD will advice shareholders to reject the offer. Once the offer is rejected then Dato’ Sri Thong is forbid to trigger another MGO for 1 year periods. In this one year period any raiders can raid the INSAS and take over controlled of INSAS from Dato’ Sri Thong.

The current predicament is best solved by MGO waiver so that company can do shares buyback again. As of distribution of INARI shares to INSAS shareholders is detrimental to INARI business because many of INARI customers trust is base on the continuality of current INARI BOD and Management team. Without INSAS controlling shareholding the INARI BOD and Management team will be subjected to change by INARI new controlling shareholder.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2020-04-13 10:55 | Report Abuse

Yes the other thing is why should Insas continue holding an associate position in inari leh ??

What value that insas can contribute to inari leh ??
Not much loh, in fact inari is much bigger than insas mah...!!

Thus it is not detrimental for Insas to distribute Inari share to all its shareholders loh...!!

The only thing, i can see is that, it is detrimental to Dato Thong being a director in Inari thus reduce his influence loh....!!

But still Thong can get about 33% of distribution of inari by insas, thus he is not negative impacted mah...!!

This is a fair way to go, let inari breakout from insas and let it fly loh.....!!

Posted by Sslee > 2020-04-13 10:57 | Report Abuse

Haha,
A million WB man stockraider is back. Have you used your lucky escape 5K to buy 10,000 Insas shares when it was selling below 50 cents?

Posted by Kctai3007 > 2020-04-13 10:58 | Report Abuse

Stock raider

He didn’t convert, and he has not asked for mgo waiver

However, he “controls” the Insas board and the directors will not buy back shares if it will trigger mgo

So we are settling for the next best thing, to approve mgo waiver (after DS Thong has applied to the SC for waiver from mgo as a result of share buyback) so that Insas can resume share buyback

This should have a positive effect on the Insas share price, and all of us will benefit

This is compromise win win solution