Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-08-30 23:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 23:11 | Report Abuse

For Hengyuan accounting reporting...To put it in proper perspective base on share investment reporting is that all realised share disposal profit u book in the account but all your existing mark to market losses u just ignore loh!

This is exactly like what Philip is claiming.....base on the false belief that he make alot of monies by ignoring all mark to market losses loh!

Posted by hng33 > 25 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Hedging position have time period, hengyuan can make settlement earlier if hedging is in favour.

Therefore, Q2 hedging loss RM 1 billion is unfavourable to make settlement earlier as crude oil in Q2 trade as high as USD 135.

The hedging loss RM 1 billion is not classified in P&L as hedging is not reach settlement, just alike your stock portfolio now is in paper loss but you opt not to sell to realize loss, but in paper, your portfolio wealth have show decrease in NTA.

You can afford to wait just like hengyuan, until hedging position is in favor position like nect Q3, crude oil already decreade significantly from USD 135 to current USD 100, hedging position now become reverdal from loss RM 1 billion to gain, hengyuan can opt to settle hedging positon just alike you opt your cover short position in your stick portfolio. Once settlement reached, it will reflects in P&L

Posted by birkincollector > 2022-08-30 23:14 | Report Abuse

gonna be sell on news on this one....always do

Posted by tehka > 2022-08-30 23:14 | Report Abuse

Is EPS > 2 a good result or bad result? Let the market answer this question.

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:18 | Report Abuse

Can anyone show which page of the QR is showing NTA 5.2546 ? I can't find it !
NTA of the company represented by Share capital + retained earnings .

@ 30/6/2022 Total is 300 mil + 2,725.5 mil = 3,035.5 mil
NTA is 3,035.50/300 mil share = $10.12 per share !

@ 31.12.21 Total is 300 mil + 2,020.6 mil = $2,320.6 mil
NTA @31/12/21 = $2,320.6/300 = $7.74 mil

From 31/12/21 to 30/6/22 , NTA increase from $7.74 to $10.12 ie $2.38/share
The increase match to the YTD EPS of $2.38.
----------------------------
Posted by Mikecyc > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse

Haha why ah NTA is dropped ??

AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
5.2546
6.8399

Posted by StockraiderFather > 2022-08-30 23:18 | Report Abuse

My son is a half baked intellect.Cannot qualify to go local uni.So he is a mediocre chinese only. But since he is my son , i can vouch for his intelligence.But if HY price goes ballistic I am willing to ask Stockraider Mother i.e my wife to sleep with anyone in this forum.There must be some 584 males here.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 23:19 | Report Abuse

Dear John,

Explain as below loh;

For Hengyuan accounting reporting...To put it in proper perspective base on share investment reporting is that all realised share disposal profit u book in the account but all your existing mark to market losses u just ignore loh!

This is exactly like what Philip is claiming.....base on the false belief, that he make alot of monies by ignoring all mark to market losses loh!

Posted by Johnzhang > 12 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Dear Stockraider,
Are you sure you understood the accounting treatment for derivatives before you join others casting doubts about HY's financials ??

As little as I understand, the $1,079,600,000 derivative LOSSES are temporary fair value change for outstanding contracts and park as other comprehensive expense in the income statement until the actual sales/transactions occur and it will be transferred to the income statement to offset the actual GAINS on these transactions. Please note the key words are derivative LOSSES match to GAINS on the transaction when they occur.
That means we can expect next qtr sales to generate extraordinary GP than spot market rate and the extraordinary GP shall offset the temporary derivative losses. I believe HY will still do very very well in Q3.

Posted by hng33 > 2022-08-30 23:20 | Report Abuse

If you have hedging contract valid for 1 year, you need to account for fluctuations in hedging position loss/gain in your book value/nta.

It is only you opt for early settlement or end of 1 year contract settlement, record realize gain or loss in profit /loss account.

Posted by tehka > 2022-08-30 23:20 | Report Abuse

Ty Y, are you sure you believe now? We saw you keep blaming otb here when the price not go up

Posted by beinvested > 2022-08-30 23:21 | Report Abuse

Compare to 6 months ago -

This QR

Total assets increased, needless to say that total liabilities also being equal.
Receiveables/Debtors, inventories & other receiveables increased.

Money in the bank & financial asset are about the same.
To take a decision to cast out RM30 Mil for those 300M units of issued shares
is already an achievement for the rate of 10 sen isn't easy for many companies in KLSE.

How any companies to classify/recognizing their sale/profit is forever arguable because there are inventories parked under the rain/sun, classified sale even when only down payment being made, retained profits not reflected as cash in the bank, hedge against the purchasing price/raw material....long list.

That 300M units of issued shares were paid with RM1 as par value instead of RM0.10 a share issued by others nowadays for billions of shares

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-30 23:22 | Report Abuse

Just imagine with low PE and high EPS, how these will trigger the big machines like Refinitiv, Bloomberg terminal to initiate coverage and subsequent buy call….only setback is not many people understand how hedging works and the mechanism of hedge accounting.

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:22 | Report Abuse

Mikecyc, No point posting derivative asset and liability without you explaining what are there , how there arise and what implication to BS and Income statement .
Pls at least attempt to provide some professional explaination lah

Posted by Mikecyc > 29 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Referred to Latest Q2 Report ended June 2022 :
1. Non Current Asset :
Derivative financial assets. RM 14,363,000
2. Current Asset :
Derivative financial assets. RM 247,598,000
3. Non Current Liabilities :
Derivative financial liabiliti RM 480,908,000
4. Current Liabilities :
Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,305,569,000
Referred to Q1 Report ended March 2022 :
1. Non Current Asset :
Derivative financial assets. RM 2,976,000
2. Current Asset :
Derivative financial assets. RM 158,102,000
3. Non Current Liabilities :
Derivative financial liabiliti RM 42,581,000
4. Current Liabilities :
Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,452,913,000

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 23:22 | Report Abuse

Petron treatment is correct but not Hengyuan mah!

U must account for all your mark to market losses...b4 u derive your reporting profit mah!

Posted by hng33 > 31 seconds ago | Report Abuse

If you have hedging contract valid for 1 year, you need to account for fluctuations in hedging position loss/gain in your book value/nta.

It is only you opt for early settlement or end of 1 year contract settlement, record realize gain or loss in profit /loss account.

Posted by hng33 > 2022-08-30 23:23 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan hedging contract will continue incur paper loss if crude oil trading in single upward direction.

It wil however, reverse hedging position into gain if crude oil reverse trend to downward.

Right timing to opt for early settlement in hedging position is normal part for pure refiner to mitigated fluctuations in feedstock crude oil

Posted by beinvested > 2022-08-30 23:24 | Report Abuse

Until unless the Auditor decided to resign...is safe to accept the accounts.

Posted by Ravi1969 > 2022-08-30 23:24 | Report Abuse

When hedging losses was high claim company chinaman con la this la bad management.
Now Q2 results good same BS by the same people. Please go get a life losers

Posted by Sslee > 2022-08-30 23:35 | Report Abuse

Whatever mark to market derivative loss/gain at quarter closing date spot price when mature at the maturity date will become realised derivaties loss/gain at maturity spot price against hedge price. This realised derivatives loss/gain will then result in physical gain/loss in gross profit. (Revenue - purchased) the net result actually cancel each other.

This is unlike speculation where you do not have physical goods to sale and purchase

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:35 | Report Abuse

Is it true ? kindly should us the accounting entries. We are happy to learn .

Posted by sense maker > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

What’s there to argue on classification of profits and losses of different items? They all flow down invariably to net assets aka shareholders’ fund, regardless. RM1.27 per share of net assets have left the company. It’s a huge net loss suffered by the company during the quarter.

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-30 23:37 | Report Abuse

@johnzhang
Net assets per share is available at the face of Bursa template. For computation, just simply use shareholders’ equity divided by 300 m shares then you will get the number.
The drop in NA per share is mainly attributable to the losses in cash flow hedge reserves and cost of hedging reserves.

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:38 | Report Abuse

Come on lah Stockraider ! Derivative accounting treatment is not so simple as you describe.

Posted by stockraider > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Dear John,

Explain as below loh;

For Hengyuan accounting reporting...To put it in proper perspective base on share investment reporting is that all realised share disposal profit u book in the account but all your existing mark to market losses u just ignore loh!

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-30 23:44 | Report Abuse

Losses recognized on derivatives held for hedging is not a concern. Do not expect the losses on cost of hedging to recycle to pnl unless the contract is terminated. Losses on cash flow hedge will be recycle to pnl to offset the gain on the spot market whereas losses on cost of hedging will be gradually reset to zero when near to the contract maturity dates.

Posted by chesslim > 2022-08-30 23:47 | Report Abuse

Q result like that, Hengyuan Sept.01.2022 can limit up again ?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 23:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:49 | Report Abuse

But aren't these cash flow hedge reserve, cost of hedging reserve and exchange translation reserves temporary differences will eventually match to profit when the respective transaction closed ? Appreciate your sharing.

Posted by Rabbit2 > 52 seconds ago | Report Abuse

@johnzhang
Net assets per share is available at the face of Bursa template. For computation, just simply use shareholders’ equity divided by 300 m shares then you will get the number.
The drop in NA per share is mainly attributable to the losses in cash flow hedge reserves and cost of hedging reserves.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 23:50 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 23:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Hong22 > 2022-08-30 23:52 | Report Abuse

Based on KLSE Screener, only 3 companies are having EPS more than RM2.80.

DLADY EPS RM3.84 PE 8
HENGYUAN EPS RM2.80 PE 2 (lowest)
BKAWAN EPS RM3.15 PE 7

Comparing to PetronM EPS RM1.42 PE 4
Market tend to give higher valuation to PetronM due to dividend

Now that HENGYUAN is giving dividend should deserve PE 4 which the fair value to RM11?

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:53 | Report Abuse

Ya i want to learn. Mike, please teach me lah .

Posted by Mikecyc > 12 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Haha Ssllee do teach yr friend in Bplant how to Read QR Report … hahaha :


Posted by Johnzhang > 28 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Can anyone show which page of the QR is showing NTA 5.2546 ? I can't find it !
NTA of the company represented by Share capital + retained earnings

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:57 | Report Abuse

Ya loh. Someone can read but can not interpret the report correctly.
Good night Mike. Don't waste your time trying to interpret. hehehe....
Posted by Mikecyc > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Haha Stop for tonight … later laugh until i cant sleep …. Hahahaha

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-08-31 00:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-08-31 00:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-31 00:17 | Report Abuse

@johnzhang
Cash flow hedge reserves will be recycled to profit to match it hedging purpose when transactions ended, translation reserves will be recycled to profit only when you dispose of a subsidiary with reporting currency denominated in foreign currency. Cost of hedging reserves which is the movement in the basis swap spread will unlikely recycle to profit unless it is terminated. That amount of losses will slowly write down to eventually become zero on the contract maturity date. This is mark to market I.e. when matured, no more forward element, only spot element.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-08-31 00:22 | Report Abuse

Let assume Hengyuan hedge refining margin monthly from July 2022 till Dec 2023 at varies hedge price.

In Q2 book closing on 30/06/ 2022 the spot refining margin is peak at USD 40 per barrel.
Hence in Q2 account you will have mark to market unrealised hedge loss from month july 2022 till Dec 2023 if your hedge refining margin is less than USD40. (This mark to market loss will be enter as derivatives liabilities in Balance sheet)

Come Q3 end 30/09/22. All those refining margin mature on july to aug will become realised loss/gain (depend on you hedge price again spot/physical realised price. The loss in hedge will cancel each other by gain in physical) . On 30/09/22 the spot refining margin is USD 20. The mark to market refining margin hedge unrealised gain/loss is now USD 20 against your Oct 2022 to Dec 2023 refining margin hedge price contracts. The unrealised refining margin gain/loss will be capture in balance sheet as derivaties assets/liabilities

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-31 00:27 | Report Abuse

The reason why all these movements in reserves were recognized in other comprehensive income instead of pnl are to reduce volatility in pnl since they are non-operational in nature, and it serves the purpose as intended.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-08-31 00:35 | Report Abuse

sslee

(This mark to market loss will be enter as derivatives liabilities in Balance sheet)
LOSS = Asset
The unrealised refining margin gain/loss will be capture in balance sheet as derivaties assets/liabilities
Gain = Liabilities / Loss = Asset entered as liabilities/assets

LOSS = Debit aka asset or expenses
GAIN = Credit aka Liability or Sales

you are even more naughty than me !!
:)

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-08-31 00:38 | Report Abuse

sslee

typical engineer
:)
1 engineer told me, accounting is very easy, I can actually do it but I pay you to do it for me.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-08-31 00:45 | Report Abuse

sslee

say you spent RM1 Billion on Paris Hilton wedding gift,
actually an expense,
paid via payment voucher
and bank transfer to me
and I pocketed RM1 Billion
paid nothing to Paris Hilton
and send old auntie photo of underwear to you.

sslee being naughty told auditor its R&D for nuclear fusion
and breakthrough is very near
99.99% possibility.
Supplied Photo of Paris Hilton aka old auntie underwear at 1 million X closeup
so it looks like a Tokamak Reactor with lights running

so auditor transferred it to Balance Sheet
as a Debit
or Asset
as R&D Development Expenses.

=> its Loss/Asset/Expense

comprende?

and all was happy

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-31 01:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-31 01:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:16 | Report Abuse

Stock raider was a stern supporter of HY back in 2017 and strongly promoted tp of $25.00
Now is anti HY

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:20 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-31 01:21 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:22 | Report Abuse

Beware of Ib lackey pouring negative info so that price won’t go up
Or else their cw will make them lost their pants off

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:25 | Report Abuse

Without stock market I was born with a golden spoon
Oops I am dam Brady rich Ooi

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:26 | Report Abuse

Mike your standard can put in my pocket

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-31 01:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:29 | Report Abuse

Stockraider once a stern supporter of HY and now is a foe of HY
What a psychopath

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:31 | Report Abuse

Uncle K curi curi buying HY and next with a fantastic article promoting HY

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-31 01:32 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-08-31 01:32 | Report Abuse

Old K very thick skin one tak tau malu punya