Posted by Ahahah > 2022-08-30 20:53 | Report Abuse

Going to hoot on Thursday.

Posted by profit profits > 2022-08-30 20:54 | Report Abuse

investment banks in deep shit trouble and huge loss bcos of their call warrants, so their people come can sign bad song to fritghten the retailers.

Posted by MoneyMakers > 2022-08-30 20:55 | Report Abuse

Hanky panky windowdressing - just delay 1.07Bil hedging loss to Q3

Q3 crack spread alrdy collapse - how to swallow 1.07Bil hedging loss somemore

Posted by MoneyMakers > 2022-08-30 20:55 | Report Abuse

Logically should dump (record ‘comprehensive loss’ -400Mil after include pending hedging loss 1.07Bil)

But mybe pump @ retail only see profit 600Mil+div

Just wait&see lo thursday kikiki

Posted by Goldberg > 2022-08-30 21:00 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan's earnings prospects are likely to be rosy in the coming quarters, if not longer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To put things into perspective, Bloomberg data showed that the margin, or crack spread, between crude oil and refined products have widened substantially since the start of the year.

Oil refiners are expected to enjoy fat profit margins.

The one fundamental factor that has shaped the existing industry landscape is the tight refining capacity worldwide due to the sanctions against Russia's oil production, which is likely to persist.

"We think the sanctions and supply challenge around Russia's refined products will persist even if the war is over tomorrow," Oaklands Path Capital Management Ltd chief executive officer and chief investment officer of Ngoi Se Chai commented.

Russia is the world's second-largest exporter of refined products, said Ngoi, with a total refining capacity of six million barrels per day (bpd).

As sslee mentioned-

The party just started.

Everyone are invited and don't be late otherwise you will miss the boat ie Petron & Hengyuan.

Posted by sonyx123 > 2022-08-30 21:00 | Report Abuse

Then go ahead and short, and show us the proof of you shorting. Talk so much

Posted by valueiseverything > 2022-08-30 21:14 | Report Abuse

Heng Yuan and Petron are probably having the most weak hands in oil&gas industry. Oil down, company down, oil up company up.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-08-30 21:22 | Report Abuse

Q2 end 30/06/2022.
Revenue: RM 6,894.260,000
Purchases: RM (5,981,218,000)
Gross Profit: RM 912,942,000
Average refined products selling price USD 151 per barrel
USD to MYR: 4.40
Sale volume: 6,894,160,000/(151X4.4) = 10,376,520 barrels
Assume oil purchased volume 10,376,520 barrel
Price per barrel oil purchased: USD (5,981,218,000)/(10,376,520 x4.40) = USD 131

The crude purchased price is a little bit high side most likely purchased when the price is high or purchase some expensive low sulfur Malaysia crude oil because the Euro 4 Mogas project is expected to be completed in 4Q 2022.

So my prediction of Gross profit more than RM 1 billion is a bit off, my apology.

Posted by Rabbit2 > 2022-08-30 21:23 | Report Abuse

Seems like both HRC and Petron have yet to recognize the additional 9% prosperity tax. HRC may be yes but Petron definitely not yet.

Posted by King_trader_shadow > 2022-08-30 21:28 | Report Abuse

I hope PetronM would sail together with Hengyuan since they don't earn well as HY.

I still have huge doubt if the rally will be over since the hedging part is incurring huge losses. In fact, i'm not certainly sure how it would affect but anyone can explain further on this part.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-08-30 21:28 | Report Abuse

Petrronm have the best of both world (Petdag + Hengyuan). Earning from petrol retail sales and PD Refinery earning from refining margin.

You can compare what is the earning of Petdag and Petronm.

By the way if the the unrealized hedging loss (RM166,799,000) on derivatives can be taken out from P&L and reflected under Other comprehensive income/(expense):Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss:
Then Petronm Q2 profit before tax should be RM (240,671,000 + 166,799,000)

Posted by Ravi1969 > 2022-08-30 21:35 | Report Abuse

Sense maker like MM
Brainless

Posted by Ravi1969 > 2022-08-30 21:45 | Report Abuse

Sour grapes sooo sour. Some say chinman company won't pay dividend now how? Results good sour grapes won't acknowledge they were wrong. Otak udang auiu hai's

Posted by Ravi1969 > 2022-08-30 21:46 | Report Abuse

Guess KYY is another dumb ......

Posted by Sslee > 2022-08-30 21:48 | Report Abuse

qqq3,
Then tell me what is the different on mfrs 139 (old) and mfrs 9 (new) hedge accounting?

Posted by Ayoyo > 2022-08-30 21:49 | Report Abuse

If that's how sslee explained the derivatives variation, it does look like petronm has greater competence to hedge their commitments..... HY tends to sell themselves short against market conditions...
Petronm seems to be read the market better resulting in lesser leakage

Posted by Hong22 > 2022-08-30 21:51 | Report Abuse

Current PER is 2. EPS is RM2.80.
Average PER is 4, fair price should be around RM11?

Posted by Ayoyo > 2022-08-30 22:05 | Report Abuse

the ambiguity is in what price that Hy hedged..... crack spreads were pretty high last quarter yet their derivative losses are staggering, which means either they locked in raw materials at high and spreads on the lower off market rates....so, when comes delivery, they will recognize lower revenues and higher costs...... don't get me wrong.. I do have Hy but wonder if petron would be the better bet

Posted by hng33 > 2022-08-30 22:11 | Report Abuse

Based on revenue and cost, hengyuan only realize average crack spread USD 20 in Q2. The lower than expected spread is due to lagging effect of 1 month.

The next Q3 crack spread will take into accout highest crack spread happen in June >USD 35 and up till Aug which at current on average crack spread around USD29.

Next Q3 will also take into account lower crude oil, resulting reversal in hedging from loss to gain.

In short, the best result will only happen in Q3, EPS could double than current RM 2.2

Posted by Ayoyo > 2022-08-30 22:13 | Report Abuse

are you sure that the recognized spread is not due to their hedging done at low instead?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:13 | Report Abuse

Correctloh....!!
This time mike ....talk some sense loh!

If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!

Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!

Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!


Posted by Mikecyc > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse

Haha why ah NTA is dropped ??

AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
5.2546
6.8399

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-08-30 22:18 | Report Abuse

Qtr3 should rm1billion above
Due to hedging gain.

Posted by Ravi1969 > 2022-08-30 22:20 | Report Abuse

Wow they should make stock raider FM for MY

Posted by Ahahah > 2022-08-30 22:22 | Report Abuse

Yes, they mention that a huge hedging gain in Q3 till end of August. Q3 profit will be more than RM1bil.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:23 | Report Abuse

Please do not get kon by Hengyuan manipulative Accounts loh!

Actually Hengyuan is in deep trouble loh!

Correctloh....!!
This time mike ....talk some sense loh!

If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!

Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!

Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!


Posted by Mikecyc > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse

Haha why ah NTA is dropped ??

AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
5.2546
6.8399

Posted by sense maker > 2022-08-30 22:26 | Report Abuse

What’s there to argue on classification of profits and losses of different items? They all flow down invariably to net assets aka shareholders’ fund, regardless. RM1.27 per share of net assets have left the company. It’s a huge net loss suffered by the company during the quarter.

Posted by Ayoyo > 2022-08-30 22:32 | Report Abuse

stockraider, it's not like that.... as sslee had explained, it's a hedging derivative, not a trading one..... which means, the p/l implications are taken when the contacts waste fulfilled..... meaning, had Hy were to deliver or fulfill all their contacts in the last quarter, they would have reported a loss of 400 mil instead......so, for next quarter, it'd depends on how much they are hedged against actual physical .... high crack spread may not fully work for them if they are hedged at lows and raw materials at high.... this makes it very difficult to predict Hy earnings where sifus here understated derivative losses... let's hope for the best Thursday

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:32 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Hong22 > 2022-08-30 22:32 | Report Abuse

Agreed 22Q3 will be more surprise. In fact, 2022 will be record year for HRC and PetronM. Is not easy to hold volatilr oil stock. But is rewarding.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:33 | Report Abuse

Very important mah!

Hengyuan should be reporting a loss of Rm 1.37 per share instead of profit of Rm 2.22 per share mah!

Posted by sense maker > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

What’s there to argue on classification of profits and losses of different items? They all flow down invariably to net assets aka shareholders’ fund, regardless. RM1.27 per share of net assets have left the company. It’s a huge net loss suffered by the company during the quarter.

Posted by beinvested > 2022-08-30 22:34 | Report Abuse

Got dividend also

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:35 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by hng33 > 2022-08-30 22:36 | Report Abuse

Hedging position have time period, hengyuan can make settlement earlier if hedging is in favour.

Therefore, Q2 hedging loss RM 1 billion is unfavourable to make settlement earlier as crude oil in Q2 trade as high as USD 135.

The hedging loss RM 1 billion is not classified in P&L as hedging is not reach settlement, just alike your stock portfolio now is in paper loss but you opt not to sell to realize loss, but in paper, your portfolio wealth have show decrease in NTA.

You can afford to wait just like hengyuan, until hedging position is in favor position like nect Q3, crude oil already decreade significantly from USD 135 to current USD 100, hedging position now become reverdal from loss RM 1 billion to gain, hengyuan can opt to settle hedging positon just alike you opt your cover short position in your stick portfolio. Once settlement reached, it will reflects in P&L

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:39 | Report Abuse

Yes Hengyuan propose a dividend of 10 sen or Rm 30m but its borrowing balloned to Rm 2,805M or Rm 9.35 per hengyuan share loh!

Be very careful loh!
Do not get manipulated mah!


Posted by beinvested > 12 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Got dividend also

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:39 | Report Abuse

>> The full fair value of a hedging derivative is classified as a non-current asset or liability when the remaining maturity of the hedged item is more than 12 months; it is classified as current asset or liability when the remaining maturity of the hedged item is less than 12 months. Trading derivatives are classified as a current asset or liability.

Posted by Ayoyo > 2022-08-30 22:44 | Report Abuse

hng33, that treatment is for a trading derivative... for hedging, I believe it's a commitment to buy raw materials and sell spreads at a fixed rate within a time period.... if Hy have done it right, when recognition comes and contacts delivered and fulfilled, they become actual revenue or cost, and contacts expire.... Hy could still make good profit from this hedging but they are limited compared to had they sold at market... meaning they could have this losses as clean profit had they not taken this hedge.....like gloves selling at spot vs forward then

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:44 | Report Abuse

Do not get kon by how they classify loh!

It is just an excuse for kon....by classifying the derivative mah!

The correct treatment is as follows loh:

If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!

Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!

Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-08-30 22:44 | Report Abuse

You say Chinamen shiphoned money to china and don't want to pay more tax.
Why on earth they want to jackup profit and pay higher tax some more.Doesnt make sense!
stockraider

Very important mah!

Hengyuan should be reporting a loss of Rm 1.37 per share instead of profit of Rm 2.22 per share mah!

Posted by sense maker > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

What’s there to argue on classification of profits and losses of different items? They all flow down invariably to net assets aka shareholders’ fund, regardless. RM1.27 per share of net assets have left the company. It’s a huge net loss suffered by the company during the quarter.

9 minutes ago

Posted by IshraaqNor > 2022-08-30 22:46 | Report Abuse

Keputusan Q2 dah keluar. Seperti yg saya nyatakan, keputusan Q2 lebih cemerlang daripda Q1

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:48 | Report Abuse

Referred to Latest Q2 Report ended June 2022 :

1. Non Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 14,363,000

2. Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 247,598,000

3. Non Current Liabilities :

Derivative financial liabiliti RM 480,908,000

4. Current Liabilities :

Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,305,569,000




Referred to Q1 Report ended March 2022 :

1. Non Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 2,976,000

2. Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 158,102,000

3. Non Current Liabilities :

Derivative financial liabiliti RM 42,581,000

4. Current Liabilities :

Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,452,913,000

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by ty Y > 2022-08-30 22:50 | Report Abuse

I do not care if there is a crash in the US stock market, I will just hold on to Hengyuan shares.
The share price of Hengyuan cannot move up north because the market sentiment in KLSE is very bad.
I believe it is a lifetime opportunity to win big in Hengyuan.
You will never see a stock listed in KLSE to have such high EPS.
I believe the share price of Hengyuan will break RM19.50 in 2022.

Sell house n sell car to buy
I believe already..

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:51 | Report Abuse

Lu tau boh ?

Computation of profit for taxation is different from KLSE profit reporting mah!

Thus even current high profit reported by Hengyuan....it will not to pay high tax....bcos when tax computation, they will submit another figure loh!

Actually base on actual current scenario todate....Hengyuan is reporting a loss loh!

Posted by Sharewire > 30 seconds ago | Report Abuse

You say Chinamen shiphoned money to china and don't want to pay more tax.
Why on earth they want to jackup profit and pay higher tax some more.Doesnt make sense!

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-08-30 22:53 | Report Abuse

If I the Chinamen ,I will declare heavy losses .
I will transfer all the money china.
I won't pay dividends.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-08-30 22:53 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-08-30 22:55 | Report Abuse

Don't need any accounting makeup but heavy hedging losses will do.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-08-30 22:59 | Report Abuse

Correct loh!
They are already displaying heavy losses mah!

If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!

Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!

Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!

The dividend 10 sen...is use to entice naive investor....to get them to think...Hengyuan is highly profitable in this QTR with EPS of Rm 2.22 per share profit mah!

They want to have benefit of both world which is siphon plus killing off naive investors by getting them to buy hengyuan mah!

Posted by Michael Kwok > 2022-08-30 23:03 | Report Abuse

Sell call heng yuan 5.30-5.35
Tp rm 3.50-rm 3.70
30/8/2022 11.03pm

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-08-30 23:04 | Report Abuse

Dear Stockraider,
Are you sure you understood the accounting treatment for derivatives before you join others casting doubts about HY's financials ??

As little as I understand, the $1,079,600,000 derivative LOSSES are temporary fair value change for outstanding contracts and park as other comprehensive expense in the income statement until the actual sales/transactions occur and it will be transferred to the income statement to offset the actual GAINS on these transactions. Please note the key words are derivative LOSSES match to GAINS on the transaction when they occur.
That means we can expect next qtr sales to generate extraordinary GP than spot market rate and the extraordinary GP shall offset the temporary derivative losses. I believe HY will still do very very well in Q3.


Posted by stockraider > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Please do not get kon by Hengyuan manipulative Accounts loh!

Actually Hengyuan is in deep trouble loh!

Correctloh....!!
This time mike ....talk some sense loh!

If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!

Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!

Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!


Posted by Mikecyc > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse

Haha why ah NTA is dropped ??

AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
5.2546
6.8399

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-08-30 23:07 | Report Abuse

Liabilities is not consider loses!