Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 11:57 | Report Abuse

I know lah. Now Ah Fah living in penthouse lah. No more selling vegetables at pudu market lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


stockraider

Ahfah children already graduated from Australia loh!

Now no need to work so hard mah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 4 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Raider repented already mah. Now he is helping Ah Fah to invest in PetronM lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


7 minutes ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 11:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:02 | Report Abuse

Both also drop but Petronm drop lesser than HY lah. HY more risky mah. Haiyoh. Correct?

BobAxelrod

Question remains......why is PetronM price dropping? PetronM's earning doesn't just depends on Refineries.

Forget the comparison with HY. Take it out. PetronM should be moving up and HY the other direction if stories are what they say they are.

18 minutes ago

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:04 | Report Abuse

The front low ranking soldiers involve with charging the fort usually die 1st mah!

General Raider know this war strategy mah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Haiyoh followers also can make mah. Not all the time will lose lah. As long dont greedy still can earn lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


stockraider

He got 1st mover advantage mah!

But his follower will suffer loh!

Posted by qqq3333 > 49 seconds ago | Report Abuse


I was told OTB is a TA comes first investor. He is also very discipline.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:04 | Report Abuse

Come Come Ular was requested to open judi table at here. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by tehka > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

Lai ular, open judi table. Ular say Monday limit up, limited up, limit down or limited down?

Posted by stockraiderFcukMom > 2022-09-03 12:05 | Report Abuse

I am so angry with some SIFUS. Now I am venting my anger and taking my MOTHER TO bed. I will KONG kek MY mother the whole day.

Posted by stockraiderFcukMom > 2022-09-03 12:05 | Report Abuse

I am so angry with some SIFUS. Now I am venting my anger and taking my MOTHER TO bed. I will KONG kek MY mother the whole day.

Posted by stockraiderFcukMom > 2022-09-03 12:07 | Report Abuse

stockraiderFcukMom

I am so angry with some SIFUS. Now I am venting my anger and taking my MOTHER TO bed. I will KONG kek MY mother the whole day.

0 seconds ago....boss cakap kacau sama itu olang password ..pokimakJerichomy dan umur supervisee ahmed

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:07 | Report Abuse

Not correct. HY moved up higher, thus the sharper drop. But now only 10c apart.

Question remains...PetronM is so good and should be moving up and HY downwards. Not both dropping....yes?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:09 | Report Abuse

Siapa mau judi mari judi. Siapa panlai judi one mau judi boleh judi. Siapa panlai catch falling kapak one can try your skill at here. Siapa mau win more one can try your luck here. Siapa mau swim with the shark one can swim here. Siapa tak takut mati one die die want to judi one also can try here. Boleh?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:09 | Report Abuse

Value & quality will discover over time mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 30 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Not correct. HY moved up higher, thus the sharper drop. But now only 10c apart.

Question remains...PetronM is so good and should be moving up and HY downwards. Not both dropping....yes?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:12 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:12 | Report Abuse

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider if HRC wanted to con you they can just siphon out realised fair value gain on derivative financial instruments of RM 1,124,316,000 in year 2020

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:19 | Report Abuse

When got value & business got fundamental & management got integrity like Petron....when drop alot...u dare to buy more loh!

Not hengyuan loh....high risk of kon mah!

When kon happen....there are no value for the share mah!
Bcos u cannot value kon mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Continuously dropping for 3 days after QR is still "insufficient" time to digest the goodness? Funds working with eyes closed?

stockraider

Value & quality will discover over time mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:20 | Report Abuse

Fairy tales........save it.

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-03 12:23 | Report Abuse

Haiyoh, already 2 day drop, Monday agak-agak up sikit lor. All these ganas sellers must give chance to buyers also mah! Both also want to cari makan makan mah! Correct?

I say limited up with tikam price of 5.30.

UlarSawa

Siapa mau judi mari judi. Siapa panlai judi one mau judi boleh judi. Siapa panlai catch falling kapak one can try your skill at here. Siapa mau win more one can try your luck here. Siapa mau swim with the shark one can swim here. Siapa tak takut mati one die die want to judi one also can try here. Boleh?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:27 | Report Abuse

No wonder.......

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:30 | Report Abuse

Walao you so daring leh. Mau tikam like this. Ppl come out this 3 black crow apa meaning. Mau turun pun need 3 days leh. You better try tikam on 4th days onwards leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by tehka > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Haiyoh, already 2 day drop, Monday agak-agak up sikit lor. All these ganas sellers must give chance to buyers also mah! Both also want to cari makan makan mah! Correct?

I say limited up with tikam price of 5.30.

UlarSawa

Siapa mau judi mari judi. Siapa panlai judi one mau judi boleh judi. Siapa panlai catch falling kapak one can try your skill at here. Siapa mau win more one can try your luck here. Siapa mau swim with the shark one can swim here. Siapa tak takut mati one die die want to judi one also can try here. Boleh?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-03 12:32 | Report Abuse

Haiyah ular, actually I am not good in this day judi, because I am keep many months type lohm so agak agak only loh

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-03 12:32 | Report Abuse

Bob

if you want you can be Market Maker for Hedges also, then you can sell hedging to HRC
just apply to Morgan Stanley.

However its impossible to know from market listings who is offering what as the Market Maker info is not shown on screen.

Just like when you sell shares ... BURSA does not display this share is sold by Bob
same there.
those hedge offers do not show Name of Market Maker.

so Raider's Theory is very difficult in real life practice.

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:34 | Report Abuse

As already mentioned......you can't have scripts from Mission Impossible or Jack Ryan's in real life. He was delusional.

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-03 12:35 | Report Abuse

Day judi expert is hng33

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:35 | Report Abuse

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

Posted by Ahahah > 2022-09-03 12:39 | Report Abuse

My god. This forum is so active now. Ready crazy with all the different comments.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:41 | Report Abuse

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 12:43 | Report Abuse

The reason why HY shows large unrealized loss on Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is because it has around 18 million barrels of refined products, e.g Gasoline crack spread that is hedged for next 12 months at 12.7 USD/brl margin.

This is the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) shown as USD 227 million (USD 12.7 crack x 18 million barrels hedged).

As per accounting rules, this hedged contract (RMSC) has to show the opportunity lost / gained presuming the current crack spread of these refined products at the end of reporting Q2 22' (30 June) persist for the next 12 months.

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) , loss / gain: (A-M) x V

A = hedged crack spread value, 12.7 USD/brl
V = barrels volume of refined products hedged, 18 million
M = Market pricing of the hedged refined product at end of reporting period (mark to market)

Since at the end of June 22', the avg crack spread of the refined products, e.g gasoline at 31.6 USD/brl, the opportunity lost for the period of hedging is

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 31.6) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= - 338 million USD or MYR 1,490,267,000

The above is what reported as (Asset 261,065,000 - Liabilities 1,751,332,000)

Out of the above a portion will go into 'Other comprehensive
(expense)/income' reported as Cost of hedging reserve.

...

Now lets see what happens, when Gasoline crack drops to its usual average of 5.7 USD/brl (currently its about 4.5 USD/brl)

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 5.7) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= 90 million USD or gain of MYR 395,000,000

When its a loss, COHR only shows the 'greater opportunity lost' compared to smaller opportunity gained by hedging - by locking down the margin.

When its a gain, COHR only shows the 'benefit of opportunity locked' compared to if you had not locked the opportunity available earlier.


As such, we can see why the above is not reported in P&L statement. It really does not matter - as what Rabbit2 said it becomes zero on maturity.

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:46 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:46 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:46 | Report Abuse

200ma around 4.6x there. See mau pecah or rebound at here. If pecah 4 4 - 4.2 b4 rally start time maybe the sapot there. If pecah lagi. No eyes see liao. Be careful sikit these levels. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by tehka > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Haiyah ular, actually I am not good in this day judi, because I am keep many months type lohm so agak agak only loh

Posted by Ahahah > 2022-09-03 12:47 | Report Abuse

@probabilty my English is not good. That is what I try to explain in this morning but rejected by this 3i members.
Beside that they are using petrol to blend with diesel and selling as diesel at good price.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:47 | Report Abuse

How about the company really hide you pun dunno mah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 27 seconds ago | Report Abuse

It's slanderous to accuse a company of not reporting/hiding Losses.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:48 | Report Abuse

Forum is like this mah. All want yo show they are correct leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Income > 38 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Hai yah, all cool down… pergi mandi lah. Let the market decide on Monday lah. Don’t susah susah kira sini, kira sana. No use. All take a Break lah. Boleh?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:49 | Report Abuse

Diesel n petrol mix. You better add water lah. lol. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Ahahah > 56 seconds ago | Report Abuse

@probabilty my English is not good. That is what I try to explain in this morning but rejected by this 3i members.
Beside that they are using petrol to blend with diesel and selling as diesel at good price.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:51 | Report Abuse

The hedging losses may not reverse loh!

Bcos the instrument use is term as hedging....but it could be speculative if use wrongly instead of hedging mah!

The above scenario is bad....it could even be even worse....if it is fake siphoning instrument loh!

No one will know loh....bcos the disclosure is opaque....they just disclose as hedging losses...why loss & how loss & how big is the position & how long is unanswered.........unless a full forensic audit is done on this loh!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 12:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:52 | Report Abuse

They all want to show case their facts and figures lah. Until now no one know who is correct lah. Only saham price will answer which side is correct lor. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by Ahahah > 11 minutes ago | Report Abuse

My god. This forum is so active now. Ready crazy with all the different comments.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 12:54 | Report Abuse

ADDITIONAL EXPLANATION BY PROBABILITY:

The reason why HY shows large unrealized loss on Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is because it has around 18 million barrels of refined products, e.g Gasoline crack spread that is hedged for next 24 months at 12.7 USD/brl margin.


This is the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) shown as USD 227 million (USD 12.7 crack x 18 million barrels hedged).

As per accounting rules, this hedged contract (RMSC) has to show the opportunity lost / gained presuming the current crack spread of these refined products at the end of reporting Q2 22' (30 June) persist for the next 12 months.

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) , loss / gain: (A-M) x V

A = hedged crack spread value, 12.7 USD/brl
V = barrels volume of refined products hedged, 18 million
M = Market pricing of the hedged refined product at end of reporting period (mark to market)

Since at the end of June 22', the avg crack spread of the refined products, e.g gasoline at 31.6 USD/brl, the opportunity lost for the period of hedging is

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 31.6) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= - 338 million USD or MYR 1,490,267,000

The above is what reported as (Asset 261,065,000 - Liabilities 1,751,332,000)

Out of the above a portion will go into 'Other comprehensive
(expense)/income' reported as Cost of hedging reserve.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 12:54 | Report Abuse

Now lets see what happens, when Gasoline crack drops to its usual average of 5.7 USD/brl (currently its about 4.5 USD/brl)

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 5.7) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= 90 million USD or gain of MYR 395,000,000

When its a loss, COHR only shows the 'greater opportunity lost' compared to smaller opportunity gained by hedging - by locking down the margin.

When its a gain, COHR only shows the 'benefit of opportunity locked' compared to if you had not locked the opportunity available earlier.

As such, we can see why the above is not reported in P&L statement. It really does not matter - as what Rabbit2 said it becomes zero on maturity.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 12:55 | Report Abuse

Sudah cakap he escaped already leh. You still repeatedly asking kah. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by MoneyMakers > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

S’raider u stuck high HY at what price during 2018 collapse (rm19-rm3)??

See u got ptsd @ forever hate HY

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 12:58 | Report Abuse

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Ahahah > 2022-09-03 12:58 | Report Abuse

@BobAxelrod, I know very well. Industrial diesel is RM4.40/litre. Don’t look at the price on the station side. Diesel price is higher than petrol now.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-09-03 13:00 | Report Abuse

The fear is still high risk of siphoning money thru derivative loh!

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-03 13:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 13:06 | Report Abuse

Ron 95 and diesel price which is better. Are you refering to the retail price or the actual price with subsidy. Mana satu is higher margin b4 you talk can mix diesel n petrol. Dun suka suka cakap leh. Ular OKU dunno which is higher margin leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 13:08 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 13:09 | Report Abuse

Wei sudah replied 3rd time liao leh. He escaped liao leh. Keep asking for fun kah. Haiyoh. Correct?

MoneyMakers

S’raider u stuck high HY at what price during 2018 collapse (rm19-rm3)??

See u got ptsd @ forever hate HY

1 minute ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-03 13:10 | Report Abuse

Can or not you pun dunno lah. If want Nothing is impossible lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

BobAxelrod

If that's the only fear, then I have no fear. But that's only me.

Siphoning via derivatives is for another upcoming Mission Impossible episode.

TAYOR

1 minute ago

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-03 13:14 |

Post removed.Why?