Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:10 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:13 |

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Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 16:14 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:17 |

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Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-03 16:18 | Report Abuse

Jerichomy

thats a compliment coz Syndicates believe that you are important, actually VIP grade.

Do you see Syndicates do that to Tanjung Rambutan aka Taman Bahagia Inmates like Mike Cheat You Crazy and Dragon?
why?
coz everyone knows people like Tanjung Rambutan aka Taman Bahagia Inmates like Mike Cheat You Crazy and Dragon are nothing, not important at all.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:22 |

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Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 16:26 | Report Abuse

His lost below is spot on

PSAi3alert
Genuine Loans / Genuine Hedging / Original Cloned Rubber Stamps / Fat 'Kap Nar' running in the street businesses:
- Serba
- Air Asia
- Perak Transit
- MyEG
- Hibiscus
- Heng Yuan

Original Cloned Rubber Stamps / Fat 'Kap Nar' running in the street businesses:
- PentaMaster
- Greatech
- UCrest
- KeyAsic
- ARBB

.
27 minutes ago

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:28 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:30 |

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Posted by PSAi3alert > 2022-09-03 16:32 | Report Abuse

probability,

I have to admit that I'm least confident in putting HY in the "Fat 'Kap Nar' running in the street" list.

However, cash flow hedge and cost of hedging reserve jumping from RM -110M to RM -1079M in consecutive quarters is way too much. In addition, those hedges ought to be charged out before tax.

There ought to be explanations on how the hedge losses can be reversed, like how UPlant explained in the Q1 2022 notes.

If the boss is so confident that the hedge losses can be reversed, throw out a RM2/share dividend.

Unfortunately, it will not happen. The financial derivative liability and borrowings have swelled to RM2.8B.



UPlant Q1 2022 Notes:
[The year-to-date realised loss of RM182.1 million from commodities futures contracts was a result of hedging losses due to timing differences of raw material hedges versus delivery of finished goods as explained under Notes B1 and B2. The high hedging loss was because of the significant increase in CPO prices since entering into the earlier BMD commodity futures sales.

Upon buying back of the earlier entered BMD commodity futures sales there are immediate losses, however, these hedging losses had been and will continue to be reversed in the coming quarters through significantly higher contributions upon delivery of finished goods based on earlier purchased CPO at lower prices as part of the raw material hedge. ]


---

Posted by probability > 9 minutes ago | Report Abuse

@PSAi3alert, i had some respect on you earlier when you tried to expose Serba. But unfortunately, over confidence can make one blind to rationality...

suggest you spend some time going through the derivations, annual report on their refining margin swap, and understand how cost of hedging reserve works before commenting

HY is not the only refinery in the world that reported huge earnings.

.

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 16:34 |

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Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:34 | Report Abuse

thanks for the below comment

Posted by PSAi3alert > Sep 3, 2022 4:32 PM | Report Abuse

probability,

I have to admit that I'm least confident in putting HY in the "Fat 'Kap Nar' running in the street" list.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:36 | Report Abuse

the article was posted to explain this as i understand from a person with background in acc & finance (i am not)

ADDITIONAL EXPLANATION BY PROBABILITY:

The reason why HY shows large unrealized loss on Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is because it has around 18 million barrels of refined products, e.g Gasoline crack spread that is hedged for next 24 months at 12.7 USD/brl margin.


This is the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) shown as USD 227 million (USD 12.7 crack x 18 million barrels hedged).

As per accounting rules, this hedged contract (RMSC) has to show the opportunity lost / gained presuming the current crack spread of these refined products at the end of reporting Q2 22' (30 June) persist indefinitely till all hedging contract matures (more than 24 months).

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) , loss / gain: (A-M) x V

A = hedged crack spread value, 12.7 USD/brl
V = barrels volume of refined products hedged, 18 million
M = Market pricing of the hedged refined product at end of reporting period (mark to market)

Since at the end of June 22', the avg crack spread of the refined products, e.g gasoline at 31.6 USD/brl, the opportunity lost for the period of hedging is

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 31.6) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= - 338 million USD or MYR 1,490,267,000

The above is what reported as (Asset 261,065,000 - Liabilities 1,751,332,000)

Out of the above a portion (which matures in 12 months) will go into 'Other comprehensive
(expense)/income' reported as Cost of hedging reserve.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:37 | Report Abuse

Now lets see what happens, when Gasoline crack drops to its usual average of 5.7 USD/brl (currently its about 7.8 USD/brl)

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 5.7) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= 90 million USD or gain of MYR 395,000,000

When its a loss, COHR only shows the 'greater opportunity lost' compared to smaller opportunity gained by hedging - by locking down the margin.

When its a gain, COHR only shows the 'benefit of opportunity locked' compared to if you had not locked the opportunity available earlier.

As such, we can see why the above is not reported in P&L statement. It really does not matter - as what Rabbit2 said it becomes zero on maturity.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:37 |

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Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:38 | Report Abuse

anyone have anyone questions on the above for verification feel free to ask, but do not accuse without any evidence or substantiation that HY is cooking their books! TQ

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 16:39 |

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Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:40 | Report Abuse

Now lets see what happens, when Gasoline crack drops to ZERO (currently its about 7.8 USD/brl)

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 0) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= 228 million USD or gain of MYR 1,000,005

GAIN of 1 BILLION on Cost of hedging reserve in Q2

But those who understand the above, they know it does not matter and that for gasoline their earnings is always going to be at 12.7 USD/brl.....

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:40 | Report Abuse

HY refinery margin update - 2/09/22 (DIESEL CRACK BLASTED ABOVE 50$/brl!)
...........

Diesel: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYMEX-GOC1!/

Jet Fuel: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYMEX-ASD1!/

Gasoline Mogas 92: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYMEX-D1N1%21/
Gasoline Mogas 95 premium: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NYMEX-SMU1!/

From above:

1. Diesel at 46% yield, cracks USD 50.36/bbl
2. Jet fuel at 7% yield, cracks USD 38.40/bb
3. Gasoline Mogas 95 at 35% yield, cracks USD (4.07 + 3.71) / bbl
4. Rest of product yield at 12%, using Mogas 95 cracks USD 7.77/bbl

Gross refining margin:

= (0.46 x 50.4 ) + (0.07 x 38.40) + (0.35 x 7.77)+ (0.12 x 7.77)
= 23.18 + 2.70 + 2.72 + 0.93
= US $ 29.5 / brl
.................

Gross Profit at above derived present refining margin

= (10.7 million barrel sales per qtr) x ( US $29.5/brl) x (MYR 4.45/USD)
= 1.404 Billion MYR
...................

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 16:40 | Report Abuse

COHR gain of 390 million from loss of 1.1 billion will cause the NTA to jump by RM5 and if you add that to EPS of RM2, you get RM 7

that means by end of Q3, NTA is above RM12...WTF!

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:41 |

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Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-03 16:48 | Report Abuse

Fantastic room. It's 4.80 and not 7. Everyone can comment but those who have continued to roast even at this stage should be bashed to the max. Spamming and scamming non stop day and night.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:53 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 16:57 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:03 |

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Posted by PSAi3alert > 2022-09-03 17:05 | Report Abuse

Why can't they just present the Financial Results, Financial Position, Liquidity, Return of Capital and Outlook straight up like how other refinery companies present theirs.

No gazing into the 12-months or 24-months crystal balls, please.

Marathon Petroleum Q2 2022 results:
https://s2.q4cdn.com/142437514/files/doc_financials/2022/q2/MPC-2Q22-Earnings-Release.pdf

---

Posted by probability > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse

the article was posted to explain this as i understand from a person with background in acc & finance (i am not)

ADDITIONAL EXPLANATION BY PROBABILITY:

The reason why HY shows large unrealized loss on Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is because it has around 18 million barrels of refined products, e.g Gasoline crack spread that is hedged for next 24 months at 12.7 USD/brl margin.


This is the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) shown as USD 227 million (USD 12.7 crack x 18 million barrels hedged).

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 17:17 |

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Posted by tehka > 2022-09-03 17:17 | Report Abuse

Since there are so many unfair comparisons between Xinquan and Hengyuan, let me present to you why I know Hengyuan is not a scam.

1. About Shandong Hengyuan Petrochemical Company
FYI, the parent company Shandong Hengyuan Petrochemical Company is no some shady address in China.
Established in 1970, Shandong Hengyuan Petrochemical Company Limited (SHPC) is a state-owned enterprise based in Linyi County, Shandong Province, China.
SPHC is one of the Top 100 Leading Enterprises in Shandong and one of the Top 500 Chinese Chemical Enterprises, achieving multiple accolades over the years

2. Board of Directors
Have you counted the number of Malaysians and the total working experience of the directors of these 2 companies? FYI Hengyuan has total 6 directors including the chairman and deputy chairman, 4 of them are Malaysians. Bukan calang-calang directors, here are the profile of some of them old timers since shell:
Liang Kok Siang - 35 years with Shell Malaysia, in various commercial leadership roles:
• Managing Director, Shell MDS (2016)

Surinderdeep Singh Mohindar Singh - 24 years with the Shell Group of Companies, including as:

Xinquan bod have no comparison.

3. Hengyuan is not through some IPO, but acquired 51% in Dec 2016. In other words, these chinaman actually forked out money to acquire a stake.

If anyone thinks Hengyuan is a kon, why not think Shell is a kon also?

In conclusion don't simply assume ppl are kon loh! It is hurtful to both the Malaysians working there and also the chinaman who come to invest in malaysia

Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 17:18 | Report Abuse

HY gives these details on their annual report 2021, pg 130

They hedge from futures forward till 2024 cos refining margin is usually very thin

Its pretty straight forward to figure out why such implication when Gasoline margin shot up to 32 USD/brl end of June 22' from avg of 6 USD/brl, and this never happened before at least for the last 14 years...

Posted by PSAi3alert > Sep 3, 2022 5:05 PM | Report Abuse

Why can't they just present the Financial Results, Financial Position, Liquidity, Return of Capital and Outlook straight up like how other refinery companies present theirs.

No gazing into the 12-months or 24-months crystal balls, please.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 17:27 | Report Abuse

If you are interest you can google and read
Practical guide General hedge accounting by PWC

General hedge accounting
The rules on hedge accounting in IAS 39 have frustrated many preparers, as the requirements have often not been linked to common risk management practices. The detailed rules have, at times, made achieving hedge accounting impossible or very costly, even where the hedge has reflected an economically rational risk
management strategy. Similarly, users have found the effect of the current rules for hedge accounting less than
perfect, and they have sometimes struggled to fully understand an entity’s risk management activities based on
its application of the hedge accounting rules. So, users and preparers alike supported a fundamental reconsideration of the current hedge accounting requirements in IAS 39.
The new standard, IFRS 9, improves the decision-usefulness of the financial statements by better aligning hedge accounting with the risk management activities of an entity. IFRS 9 addresses many of the issues in IAS 39 that have frustrated corporate treasurers. In doing so, it makes some fundamental changes to the
current requirements, by removing or amending some of the key prohibitions and rules within IAS 39.
Overall, we believe that, by placing greater emphasis on an entity’s risk management practices, the publication of the third phase of IFRS 9 is an improvement for hedge accounting. It will provide more flexibility, and it might allow companies to apply hedge accounting where previously they would not have been able to. As a result, this is an opportunity for corporate treasurers and boards to review their current hedging strategies and accounting, and to consider whether they continue to be optimal in view of the new accounting regime.

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 17:31 |

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Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 17:32 |

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Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 17:34 | Report Abuse

did you not see the Dividend announcement? Ignorance and selective information absorption has no limits..

Posted by Income > Sep 3, 2022 5:32 PM | Report Abuse

Hello Sifu Sifu, you all talk until Cows come back to barn now sunset ohhhhh.
No use lah,
QUESTION 1:
Company no give dividends even if got huge profits… meaning WHAT?

I will continue Thinking Hard about the above Question lah.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:38 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:42 |

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Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 17:42 | Report Abuse

Why can't they just present the Financial Results, Financial Position, Liquidity, Return of Capital and Outlook straight up like how other refinery companies present theirs.

No gazing into the 12-months or 24-months crystal balls, please.

Marathon Petroleum Q2 2022 results:

The simple answer because Marathon Petroleum did not do hedging.
By thevway do you know how much money Marathon loss in year 2020?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:44 |

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Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 17:48 | Report Abuse

Someone did not read my explanation that the unrealised derivative gain/loss is not taken into P&L but taken into balance sheet as:
Derivatives assets
Derivaties liabilities
Hence the NTA will adjust every quarter based on marked to market:
Derivatives assets
Derivaties liabilities

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:52 |

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Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-03 17:53 | Report Abuse

Referred to Latest Q2 Report ended June 2022 :

1. Non Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 14,363,000

2. Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 247,598,000

3. Non Current Liabilities :

Derivative financial liabiliti RM 480,908,000

4. Current Liabilities :

Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,305,569,000

>>

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 543,706,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. ( 786,566,000 )


Borrowing : 1,500,466,000

Capital n Reserve : 1,576,380,000

Gearing Ratio : 0.952

————————————-


Referred to Q1 Report ended March 2022 :

1. Non Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 2,976,000

2. Current Asset :

Derivative financial assets. RM 158,102,000

3. Non Current Liabilities :

Derivative financial liabiliti RM 42,581,000

4. Current Liabilities :

Derivati financial liabilitie RM 1,452,913,000

>>>

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 299,007,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. 48,335,000


Borrowing : 1,452,913,000

Capital n Reserve : 1,988,495,000

Gearing Ratio : 0.731



Q1 :

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 299,007,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. 48,335,000

Q2 :

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 543,706,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. ( 786,566,000 )

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-03 17:53 | Report Abuse

Yawn!!
did you read about your donation to Paris Hilton wedding?

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Someone did not read my explanation that the unrealised derivative gain/loss is not taken into P&L but taken into balance sheet as:
Derivatives assets
Derivaties liabilities
Hence the NTA will adjust every quarter based on marked to market:
Derivatives assets
Derivaties liabilities

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-03 17:55 | Report Abuse

Facts and current price dont lie. Not going but already roasted and most likely further roasting soon. It's nothing wrong with the share price but the way some scammers operating in this public street room is simply amazing ! The bashing is just too mild.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-03 17:57 | Report Abuse

sslee
Liabilities are profits [refer to your Paris Hilton donation]

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 18:04 |

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Posted by probability > 2022-09-03 18:04 | Report Abuse

The reason why HY shows large unrealized loss on Cost of hedging reserve (COHR) is because it has around 18 million barrels of refined products, e.g Gasoline crack spread that is hedged for next 24 months at 12.7 USD/brl margin.


This is the Refining Margin Swap Contract (RMSC) shown as USD 227 million (USD 12.7 crack x 18 million barrels hedged).

As per accounting rules, this hedged contract (RMSC) has to show the opportunity lost / gained presuming the current crack spread of these refined products at the end of reporting Q2 22' (30 June) persist indefinitely till all hedging contract matures (more than 24 months).

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) , loss / gain: (A-M) x V

A = hedged crack spread value, 12.7 USD/brl
V = barrels volume of refined products hedged, 18 million
M = Market pricing of the hedged refined product at end of reporting period (mark to market)

Since at the end of June 22', the avg crack spread of the refined products, e.g gasoline at 31.6 USD/brl, the opportunity lost for the period of hedging is

Unrealized Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR):
= (12.7 - 31.6) USD/brl x 18 million barrels
= - 338 million USD or MYR 1,490,267,000

The above is what reported as (Asset 261,065,000 - Liabilities 1,751,332,000)

The above after taxation is placed into 'Other comprehensive
(expense)/income' , reported as Cost of hedging reserve (net of tax).

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 18:06 | Report Abuse

I3lurker,
Did you read my reply on donation to Paris Hilton wedding

Aug 31, 2022 6:29 AM | Report Abuse

Good morning i3lurker,
I think I need to attend some accounting course for non-acccountant to better understand accounting treatment on unrealised derivatives (hedging) gain/loss in balance sheet, cash flow and P&L.

As of RM1 Billion you pocketed, I will recorded it as 2 billion R&D expenses in cash flow, 2 billion as assets in Balance sheet and Zero in P&L

1 billion for you and 1 billion for me. Fair and square CHEEEEERRRR

By the way I think you can buy or sell future refining margin, crude oil and refined products swap contracts. Hence at quarterly close date the outstanding future swap contracts at that date new quote is compare with your future swap contracts you buy/sell many months ago to get your mark to market unrealised derivatives gain/loss for your outstanding swap contracts.

Correct me if I am wrong

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-03 18:12 |

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Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 18:17 | Report Abuse

If you look into HRC quarterly report.
On 31/12/19. NAPS is RM 6.7045.
Q1 end 31/03/20 EPS negative 41.37 cents but NAPS is now RM 7.4418

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-03 18:32 | Report Abuse

You can check what is the mogas92 crack spread on 31/03/2020.

Posted by Johnzhang > 2022-09-03 19:02 | Report Abuse

Since June 2022, a group of Agents coordinated malicious attacks on HY with ulterior motives. The Agents have been spamming days and nights with all sorts of disinformation, half truth stories and baseless assumptions , ultimately driving good stock to far lower that its fair value.

The Agents are capitalizing on the fragile market sentiment and serious lack of market liquidity to drive away whatever little buying interest and caused fearful and weaker retailers to dump their shares at huge discounts. The modus operandi of the agents is very obvious, trade manipulations is obvious.

Just beware that the Agents are not angels to safeguard small and retail investors’ interest. They are instead preying on unsuspecting retailers.

The Agents and the bosses behind are now collecting cheap shares again.