Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 14:29 | Report Abuse

haha

pay dividen is from cash flow, from company cash balance, yes is correct

but accumulated loss, u think AIRASIA still can continue to pay dividend?

to pay dividend, company need to continue making profit and also have cash balance to pay it

some people think pay dividend have positive operating cash flow then just pay can already

these people dont know how business works and financial reporting works

now AIRASIA retained earnings stand at around RM1.9billion

since last time delcare high dividend & if continue making loss due to many diff accounting items, then will be soon turn to accumulated loss

there is no such things aspay dividend if if u have positive cash flows

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 14:29 | Report Abuse

just finger cross and wait for next quarter out in Feb 2020, hope is profit making

Posted by Agjl > 2019-12-02 15:04 | Report Abuse

Relax guys and girls...Christmas is coming....cheers!

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 15:15 | Report Abuse

HAHAHA dont shoot yourself in the leg pls. In financial statements where is dividend paid recorded?

IT IS IN CASH FLOW STATEMENTS. Not balance sheet, not profit n loss statement. LOL!

If dont know can ask nobody will laugh you. You say like that everyone know you don’t know anything about financial statements already. Kakaka! Funny fella go learn more before TALK.

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 15:17 | Report Abuse

In fact yes. Even if accumulate p&l “loss” airasia can continue paying dividend as long as it is generating positive cash flows. Even tony himself said that. Lol. Dont be ignorant.you have much to learn boy.

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 15:21 | Report Abuse

Now u reminded me of something. In q42018 airasia reported loss of almost rm400 million yet they paid rm0.40 cents dividend in that quarter. Hahahaha take that noob. Who says report loss cannot pay dividend now? Yes you can as long as you have enough cash flow. Lol!!!

Posted by Cupcakes69 > 2019-12-02 15:44 | Report Abuse

@Koyee

Thanks for putting in the time to elaborate MFRS16, and I agree with you in regards to how the accounting expenses does not necessarily equate to cash outflow for the company. Indeed, I'm facing the same backlash for putting emphasis on cash flow as opposed to quarterly profits. So the purpose of my earlier post was not to refute your point concerning the accounting of MFRS16, but to highlight on how a reliance on cash flow may go wrong when evaluating the performance of the company. My mention of depreciation was actually on depreciation of PPE under MFRS 116, and I'm only using it as an example and not to alarm investors to its amount. What i was trying to say is that investors tend to get too caught up with adding back non-cash expenses that they forget that some of those expenses will be reflected in some form or another in the future. Just like how you point out that profit means little if most of them are receivables and in the future might just end up being bad debt, depreciation of PPE for example while is not cash outflow, does give expectation to future cash outflow when buying new PPE to replace the depreciated one. Again, i'm not saying your valuation method is bad, just highlighting how I think it may go wrong. Also, I do share some of your optimism for AirAsia, although not enough to actually buy it. Honestly, the cheaper it gets, the more attractive it looks, so i'm just sitting on the sideline.


"My statement regarding the 0.9 cents dividend is of course relevant to the valuation of the company. When you buy a company one of the most important factor is of course the valuation of it. If AA did not spent 3b plus for the dividend payout they would have COLD HARD CASH of rm5.5b which is almost the same as their market cap which means for every share you own, you own about rm1 cash of it theoretically."

This is intriguing, I do see the appeal of RM1 cash per share, but isn't that only in the hypothetical case that no dividend payout was made? If it was hypothetical, why is it relevant to valuation? shouldn't valuation be based on what has happened and could PROBABLY happen, and not on what could have happened. Honest question!

Posted by Agjl > 2019-12-02 15:53 | Report Abuse

The share price says it all....

Posted by joeshare > 2019-12-02 16:03 | Report Abuse

in my opinion rm 1 is a fair price unless there is a new catalyst

Posted by joeshare > 2019-12-02 16:09 | Report Abuse

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2019/12/02/the-deliciousness-has-landed-airasia-opens-restaurant-serving-inflight-meals

what a joke!! seriously rm 12 for nasi lemak at midvalley.. tony seriously u ok or not?

Posted by Cupcakes69 > 2019-12-02 16:19 | Report Abuse

@RainT

Sorry, but the prospect of AirAsia going into accumulated loss after a few loss quarters sounds a bit far fetched. I don't think there's much merit in claiming its impending doom.


"to pay dividend, company need to continue making profit and also have cash balance to pay it"

If I'm not wrong, a company is allowed to pay dividend even if they made losses. They only need to make sure the payout wont bankrupt the company.

-------------
@Agjl

Does it though? After the crypto bubble, 2008 crisis, dotcom bubble, great depression , tulip bubble, relying on the market to provide accurate valuation of companies doesn't sound like a very good idea.

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 16:28 | Report Abuse

To cupcakes,

Yes of course PPE matters for any businesses, but i think what you missed is that for Airasia the business are not reliant on PPE anymore since they do not OWN them anymore. There are no ACTUAL DEPRECIATION if you don't own the assets. The only depreciation they have to really book are the buildings, offices, stationary, computers etc etc.

It is because of MFRS 16 and MFRS 117 that requires the accounting standard to book as such. Tony has said that they are going asset light model which means they do not plan to OWN expensive assets that requires huge bank loans to service them. However, he also said that given the right interest rate they might actually go back to OWNING planes again.

Besides MFRS 16, MFRS 117 also affects the interest and expenses on its leases and maintenance, which again does not affect CASH.

So in the end, the ACTUAL EXPENSES here that cost them real money are the LEASES EXPENSES. There are no depreciation whatsoever. If you want to find out how much you need to go back and check the sale & leaseback agreement. So with this, i feel its safe to add back bulk of the depreciation and non cash expenses.

"If it was hypothetical, why is it relevant to valuation? shouldn't valuation be based on what has happened and could PROBABLY happen, and not on what could have happened. Honest question!"

You answered it yourself already. First it has HAPPENED until they decided to give out as DIVIDEND and could PROBABLY happen again. Airasia have 200+ brand new planes on order. If they are not going to own them they're going to sell and cash out.

Think about it the div actually go back to shareholders pockets anyway. Some of the long time shareholders have already gotten back and more than their capital just with dividends.

Even if they don't, if they keep such momentum in generating cash flows its only the matter of time they will hit RM1 per share again, unless the share price actually goes up and push the market cap higher. Also at current valuation they are at rm0.65 per share which is selling at rm1.7 now. To me this one point seems attractive and yes i still think its relevant.

Although there are companies which have more cash than their market cap such as oriental holdings. They hoard the cash without paying out as dividends and there are no clear guidance from management on what they plan to do with the cash which bothers me otherwise i would be giving it a real look as well.

I'm not saying this is the only valuation you should weigh, there are no one definite way anyone can value a company. It's all based on what you know and then you judge for yourself and anyone can be wrong.

In the longer run i do think AA have good prospects.

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 16:34 | Report Abuse

Another point is that 5 years down the road MFRS 16 will actually benefit Airasia.

But many want results instantly, quarterly. If it is possible im sure everyone wants to make money the next minute but it doesn't work that way. Once i purchase enough this will go into the fridge. I'm excited for what is going to happen next 5-7 years not next quarter lol.

Posted by Khaz > 2019-12-02 16:46 | Report Abuse

eat SANTAN and chill

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 16:52 | Report Abuse

wah

essay long comments....zzzzzzzz

but its interesing though

constructive comments , lol

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 16:55 | Report Abuse

haha

laugh die me

dividend paid record in cash flow statements

term 'record' is ......?

entry is like

Dr Retained eranings
Cr Bank

This is record entry for dividend payment

appear in cash flow statement is to calculate and show how to reconcile from accouting profit to cash/bank balance as at cut off date only

@koyee
please pay fee go attend class first before talk rubbish, lol

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 16:55 | Report Abuse

better than simply shoot until shoot yourself in the leg lah... =D

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 16:56 | Report Abuse

@koyee

can u go read companies act and all the financial standards

there is no such things as pay dividend from accumulated loss

and is not Tony said pay is pay if accumulated loss (add on: dont trust Tony too much)

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 16:57 | Report Abuse

zzzz

zzz

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 16:59 | Report Abuse

"appear in cash flow statement is to calculate and show how to reconcile from accouting profit to cash/bank balance as at cut off date only"

what nonsense are you gibbering about? dividend is purely cashflow from financing. it has nothing to do with accounting profit. what bank balance? u want bank balance go see balance sheet la lol..

waste my time and bandwidth of this forum this fella.

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 17:00 | Report Abuse

Now u reminded me of something. In q42018 airasia reported loss of almost rm400 million yet they paid rm0.40 cents dividend in that quarter. Hahahaha take that noob. Who says report loss cannot pay dividend now? Yes you can as long as you have enough cash flow. Lol!!!
02/12/2019 3:21 PM

pay dividend is not from the current year or quarter profit or loss

it is from retained earnings that has been accumulated from past few years

that 40 sen is from past years profit not for that Q4FY2018 loss of RM400m

this loss RM400m will offset frm retained profits/earnings and the balance will carry forward for future dividend payment

@koyee
the more you argue the more show that u are not educated in finance/biz knowledge/accounting

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 17:01 | Report Abuse

lol...u think i just believe what tony said like i just believe what you say?

i think i know how to differentiate when someone makes sense or not. for no you definitely are not. even then i do my own studies. lol.

Posted by icepumpkin > 2019-12-02 17:02 | Report Abuse

Very good learning for a newbie like me. Thank you Koyee.

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 17:02 | Report Abuse

i also hope that future years going down, AIRASIA will not go into accumulated loss

i believe AIRASIA wont

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 17:02 | Report Abuse

lol stupid fark....LOL!!! the 0.4 dividend is clearly stated in the cash flow statement in q4 2018 u retard! LOL

and it was to prove to you that even a company post net loss they can still give dividend not like u said cannot. in fact in bursa many companies do that.

brain fart!

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 17:03 | Report Abuse

ok im done....this fella is "there" only. not gonna stoop low with him hahaha... those who knows will read and know what is going on.

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 17:04 | Report Abuse

this Koyee is really idiot retarded

ok stop waste my time on this idot , stupid retarded Koyee

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 17:05 | Report Abuse

Cupcakes69 @RainT

Sorry, but the prospect of AirAsia going into accumulated loss after a few loss quarters sounds a bit far fetched. I don't think there's much merit in claiming its impending doom.


"to pay dividend, company need to continue making profit and also have cash balance to pay it"

If I'm not wrong, a company is allowed to pay dividend even if they made losses. They only need to make sure the payout wont bankrupt the company.

LEARN FROM OTHERS. DONT ACT A FOOL. LOL

Posted by i3lurker > 2019-12-02 17:10 | Report Abuse

Dividends
Distribution out of profit 131.
(1) Subject to section 132, a company may only make a distribution to the shareholders out of profits of the company available if the company is solvent.
(2) The company, every officer and any other person or individual who contravene this section commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding three million ringgit or to both.

Posted by RainT > 2019-12-02 17:14 | Report Abuse

@koyee
u misunderstand

profit and loss = income statement , at the end financial year transfer to balance sheet

retained earnings / accumulated loss = balance sheet item , continue carry forward

what u understand is : during the current quarter company make loss but still pay dividend , yes because its still have retained earnings and cash to pay

what i mention is : balance sheet retained earnings /accumulated loss

please get clear between this 2 first

Posted by Cupcakes69 > 2019-12-02 17:14 | Report Abuse

@Koyee

Thank you for your extensive insight. I'm certain, a lot of people in this page would find it really helpful, I certainly have. With your advise, I may perhaps revisit my previous disinclination for AirAsia.

I apologize if I may had misunderstood your previous post, and I wish you all the best in your investments and in your other endeavours.

Posted by stockmarket101 > 2019-12-02 17:30 | Report Abuse

I like Koyee's writings - quite educational for me. Thank you.

Posted by i3lurker > 2019-12-02 17:34 | Report Abuse

after looking at hundreds of thousands of cashflows its quite entertaining to see all of you discussing cashflows. One holding the leg of elephant and another holding the trunk of elephant.

both are correct of course.

1 run of Monte Carlo Simulations produces 20,000 cashflows minimum
so cash flows just oozes out of my skin

:)

Posted by Koyee > 2019-12-02 18:06 | Report Abuse

@cupcakes69 - dont worry AA is very solvent.

@raint - my point is, one or couple quarters of losses will not be a problem for AA in regards of dividends. Why are you so obsessed with retained earnings? AA have been listed for 14 years and posted net PROFIT for 13 accounting years except for 2008. That's 13 years of surplus. Are you saying AA may fall into deficit in retained earnings? I think the management is wiser than that. In any case just sell planes and don't give dividends then you will boost your retained earnings. But i don't feel there's a reason to be concerned with RETAINED EARNINGS.

End of the day, yes a company needs to be making profit which AA has done so for 13 years in 14 listing years. Earning real cash is still more reliable to me.

I rest my case, Good luck to everyone holding AA.

Posted by Smallretailer > 2019-12-02 20:32 | Report Abuse

How many cents you think the dividend will be? 50 Cents?

Posted by scholez18 > 2019-12-02 23:34 | Report Abuse

While I don't like AA's new eatery venture, I'm bullish on Teleport, BigPay, and AirAsia.com as new high growth new revenue streams.

Fully agree with Koyee that recent reported losses are just on paper, real cash machine is churning from within the business above. Next 5-10 years, these new ventures would provide stability to the core airline business's volatile earnings.

Such growth would have warranted 15x-20x earnings multiple in wallstreet - we're lucky to find such company in our own backyard. Long Airasia all the way.

Note to sophisticated investors: can find more sophisticated platforms to exchange opinions. Alot of useless and trashy comments like "strap seatbelt", "share price says all", and cursing, etc. I'm new here - but probably my last comment.

Posted by i3lurker > 2019-12-03 00:02 | Report Abuse

scolez18

shit!!!
all are welcome whether they strap seatbelt or not since share price says all....

Posted by shortinvestor77 > 2019-12-03 08:27 | Report Abuse

https://www.klsescreener.com/v2/news/view/607102

Posted by strattegist > 2019-12-03 09:23 | Report Abuse

sawadikapppp

Posted by Victor Yong > 2019-12-03 10:23 | Report Abuse

Share price affected by typhoon lah? :)

KUALA LUMPUR (Dec 2): AirAsia has cancelled and rescheduled a number of flights within as well as to and from the Philippines starting today until Wednesday due to Typhoon Kammuri, including the Kuala Lumpur-Manila route.

AirAsia, in a statement today, said guests travelling over the next few days are strongly encouraged to check their flight status at airasia.com/flightstatus for the latest updates.

The airline said all affected guests have been notified via email and SMS.

AirAsia also said guests whose flights have been cancelled or delayed longer than three hours could either change their flight, retain the value of their fare in AirAsia BIG Loyalty account for future travel, or receive a full refund.

Guests can make booking changes online at airasia.com by clicking on the AVA icon on the lower right of the screen, it said.

The airline said it is continuing to monitor the situation and will provide information on the latest developments.

Bernama

Posted by strattegist > 2019-12-03 11:20 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by alexsee > 2019-12-03 12:01 | Report Abuse

u can get nasi lemak everywhere in Malaysia, why must buy from airasia?? sedap dan murah sgt ke??

Posted by 5354_ > 2019-12-03 12:06 | Report Abuse

Buy nasi lemak from AA not FOC?

Posted by JK22 > 2019-12-03 12:09 | Report Abuse

To celebrate the opening, Santan is offering customers a limited-time online promotion where Pak Nasser's Nasi Lemak with Chicken Rendang is available at only RM5, while BIG members get to enjoy free coffee with every T&CO app download....

Above price ...yes.. cheap.. Eating out in a restaurant , environment , cleanliness and qualities control come first before price.

Posted by Khaz > 2019-12-03 12:15 | Report Abuse

any1 tried? how is it? Santan

Posted by joeshare > 2019-12-03 13:52 | Report Abuse

i was rite again.. flat and downtrending..

Posted by papparich > 2019-12-03 15:11 | Report Abuse

This is your Captain speaking. As we continue to descend to RM1.63, we would like to announce of our new outlet at Santan Mid Valley which is one of many outlets to come. Enjoy free coffee for Big Members. There is a typhoon announcement which will likely not affect our schedule price. Have a good day and thanks for flying with AA.

Posted by DAN84 > 2019-12-03 16:22 | Report Abuse

lol! awesome! pls come typhoon so I can grab more.. haha!

Posted by strattegist > 2019-12-03 16:32 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by geary > 2019-12-03 16:48 | Report Abuse

Hold...@>5-YR...!!!
https://skift.com/2019/12/02/airasia-wants-to-beat-u-s-fast-food-chains-by-opening-first-airline-food-restaurant/