Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:01 | Report Abuse

Why bother the one keep create such ID one lah. He operate cafe one. Many fancy ID also can create lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Jerichomy

Hey below dont use my name.

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 10:02 | Report Abuse

Aiyoyo ularsawa jadi referee musti adil kasi semua facts and figures supaya penyokong dan penkritic boleh fight dengan adil.

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 10:04 | Report Abuse

Ularsawa you're the best mediator here!

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:05 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-01 10:06 | Report Abuse

Haiyoh ular, I don't know about that lor. Shortist already invest RM1million to try to make it red. If later put in another RM1million and still green how leh?

UlarSawa
This is their choice mah. Last last shortists win juga lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-01 10:09 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 10:10 | Report Abuse

So how?? They want to make it green or red? Faster lah make up their mind lah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:11 | Report Abuse

Shortists dont just short one day leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


tehka

Haiyoh ular, I don't know about that lor. Shortist already invest RM1million to try to make it red. If later put in another RM1million and still green how leh?

UlarSawa
This is their choice mah. Last last shortists win juga lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

4 minutes ago

Posted by profit profits > 2022-09-01 10:16 | Report Abuse

slow and steady rise is better than unhealthy spike and go kaput

Posted by CharlesT > 2022-09-01 10:24 | Report Abuse

Bombastic record high Q result EPS RM2.20+ Div RM0.10........Share price goes up RM0.16 now....

Time to do profit projection for Q3?

Posted by King_trader_shadow > 2022-09-01 10:26 | Report Abuse

sslee,

I wanna ask something here, the cash and cost hedging in Q1 already settle or it was snowball to this quarterQ2? Could you confirm on this?

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2022-09-01 10:26 | Report Abuse

it seems that i3 does not have qualified accountant who understands hedging...

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:27 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-01 10:27 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by IshraaqNor > 2022-09-01 10:27 | Report Abuse

Inventori minyak turun tapi harga turun juga....Amat Pelik

https://www.investing.com/news/commodities-news/us-oil-inventories-fell-by-33-million-barrels-last-week-eia-2883541

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-01 10:30 | Report Abuse

Q1 :

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 299,007,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. 48,335,000

Q2 :

Cash flow hedge reserve ( 543,706,000 )
Cost of hedging reserve. ( 786,566,000 )

Posted by profit profits > 2022-09-01 10:33 | Report Abuse

if price goes down ideally inventory need to go down as well in order to be profitable, that is common sense. even in cooking oil, mydin boss complaining making losses bcos he kept huge expensive stock and gomen set lower selling price.

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-01 10:33 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Bombastic record high Q result EPS RM2.20+ Div RM0.10........Share price goes up RM0.16 now....
Time to do profit projection for Q3?
------------------------
Make 1.10 EPS for Q3 and Q4 2022 respectively to make annual EPS for FY2022=5.00 is good enough.
Do not need EPS=3.00 in Q3 2022.
No stock listed in KLSE makes EPS=5.00 in our history.
Only Hengyuan.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:36 | Report Abuse

If Q3 lower eps then dont use annualized figure if the QoQ result is getting lower leh. Dont mislead ppl the past good result will repeat leh. Mau pun show correct facts and figures mah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 10:38 | Report Abuse

All hedgings are with maturity date. So on maturity day the losses will be realised and recorded in : The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after (crediting)/charging:
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments RM so and so.

But loss in derivatives is actually offset by higher gross profit due to physical gain in higher selling price or lower purchased cost.

Those unmature hedge/derivatives will be marked to market and reported as unrealised gain/(loss)

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:38 | Report Abuse

This Is what happening at hiaptek and ays leh. You use annualized of course it look nice leh. The fact is the their QoQ is deteriorating leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-01 10:38 | Report Abuse

Wow EPS = 5, if at PE 10, or PE 15, wow brain is blown, cannot imagine

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:39 | Report Abuse

Why many want to kutuk the facts and figures not correct interpreted leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:41 | Report Abuse

PE is another thing many look at it. The lower the better. But must also see what market prefer PE mah. Not your preferred PE is what market want mah. Understand or not. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-01 10:42 | Report Abuse

Haiyoh ular, we see 2017 PE lor.. sane thing going to happen

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:44 | Report Abuse

Dunno lah. Past tense is not important lah. Past tense goreng time is different lah. Now kakijudi more cautious not get caught again mah. If kena one time is ok lah. If kena twice then c2pid lor. Hiayoh. Correct?

Posted by lee77 > 2022-09-01 10:47 | Report Abuse

Price dun go up ... why ???
EPS more than 2....?????

Posted by NoviceJ > 2022-09-01 10:47 | Report Abuse

The barrier to entry is quite high and new Refinery do take some time and also very ex
Naysayer can say what they want but the fact is all there

Hold on tight tight and enjoy the ride

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:50 | Report Abuse

Friday till Sunday already discussed mah. You rewind lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

lee77

Price dun go up ... why ???
EPS more than 2....?????

2 minutes ago

Posted by CharlesT > 2022-09-01 10:51 | Report Abuse

Posted by tehka > 11 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Wow EPS = 5, if at PE 10, or PE 15, wow brain is blown, cannot imagine

Do u know how AffinHwang's very smart Analyst derived his TP of RM100 for Toglove in 2020?

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 10:51 | Report Abuse

The unrealised gain/loss on derivative can be recorded in P&L as
Other comprehensive (expense)/income:
Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss when on maturity date.
Cash flow hedge – net fair value (loss)/gain on derivatives used for hedging (net of tax)
Cost of hedging reserve (net of tax)

The unrealised loss is non cash item hence in balane sheet will be recorded as:
Derivative financial liabilities
Derivative financial assets
Thus the NTA will change from quarter to quarter.

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by klee > 2022-09-01 10:53 | Report Abuse

soon red,haiyoh....correct?

Posted by CharlesT > 2022-09-01 10:55 | Report Abuse

I think HY should have a better ending today than Petronm last week...when share price drops 0.40+ when they annouced ESP RM0.60+

Posted by CharlesT > 2022-09-01 10:55 | Report Abuse

HY shall close green today i guess

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 10:57 | Report Abuse

Klee you are back macam mana

klee
soon red,haiyoh....correct?
3 minutes ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 10:58 | Report Abuse

Toss coin better lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-01 10:59 | Report Abuse

Haoyoh Klee, no lah, I think no limit up just limited up. Don't red lah, else many unhappy people here

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 11:00 | Report Abuse

Haiya, Slow slow green ok lah!!

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 11:06 | Report Abuse

By right those IB that issue call warrant should hold the same amout of mother share. So that on call warrant maturity date what is a loss in call warrant is covered by gain in mother share and vice versa.

What ever in between the period before maturity date is just a book keeping marked to market unrealised loss/gain.

Posted by Jerichomy > 2022-09-01 11:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 11:07 | Report Abuse

If red ho, those sickening cry father cry mother ahbu ahkaw will appear and spam here

Posted by tehka > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Haoyoh Klee, no lah, I think no limit up just limited up. Don't red lah, else many unhappy people here

Posted by sikusiku > 2022-09-01 11:11 | Report Abuse

That's the theory lah. But the reality is that it's impossible in this case.

HY's NOSH is 300 million, with the major shareholder holding half.

Look at the number of CWs issued.

Hengyuan-C25 is a good example, 150 million issued, ratio of 4:1.

No way can an IB hold 37.5 million shares of HY.

And that's just for one CW.

---
Sslee

By right those IB that issue call warrant should hold the same amout of mother share. So that on call warrant maturity date what is a loss in call warrant is covered by gain in mother share and vice versa.

What ever in between the period before maturity date is just a book keeping marked to market unrealised loss/gain.

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-01 11:12 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-01 11:14 | Report Abuse

@sslee, after studying all the notes on hedging, if possible make an article how hedging of commodity & refining margin swap work with the precise meaning of notional value, maturity etc and cash flow hedge and cost of hedging

this article will be useful for both petronm and hengyuan in the future

sanction havent started yet

TQ (if i have time i will do also)

Posted by lee77 > 2022-09-01 11:15 | Report Abuse

IDSS volumn keep increasing.,,, how the price can go up..
May case same as glove....

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2022-09-01 11:16 | Report Abuse

I think this is correct. derivative loss will offset corresponding high profit when forward contract realised or utilised...

*********************
Posted by probability > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

exactly sslee, their hedging position is in gasoline where the margin is thin for protection

thats why they made huge money in Q2 with the gain in Diesel and Jet Fuel crack


Posted by probability > Aug 31, 2022 9:16 AM | Report Abuse X

The most likely commodity hedging that caused the unrealized derivative loss is the Gasoline.

Note that the crack spread of gasoline jumped from 10 USD/brl to 32 USD/brl from Q4 21 by end of Q2 22

Say they hedged 10 million barrels 'gasoline - brent' crack by end of 2021 (considering the intent to secure relatively good margin in Q4 21' compared to avg of only 7 USD/brl last few years).

They would have bought brent crude at 100 USD and sold gasoline at 110 USD/brl in futures market with maturity of 2 years (end of 2023).

The above means they have a margin swap hedging contract valued at 10 million barrels x 10 USD/brl = USD 100 million expiring by Dec 2023.

Now by end of Q2 , the gasoline margin had expanded to 32 USD/brl.

They would need to mark to market the hedging contract status by end of Q2

This means they will report an unrealized hedging loss of 10 million x 22 USD/brl (crack expansion from their hedging to 32 from 10), which equal 220 million USD.

Now by end of Q3, if the present crack maintains for gasoline, the crack would drop back to 10 USD/brl resulting with zero hedging loss.

They can choose to realize the hedging by this qtr without affecting the P&L at all or they can do it when another opportunity arise before end of 2023 (but they must realize before the maturity).