Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:27 | Report Abuse

HY FYE at least 1 B even so much hedging lost
EPS at least RM3-5 for FYE 2022

MoneyMakers If really caring/sharing - should share coming Q3 1.07Bil hedging loss + crack spread collapse
01/09/2022 1:20 PM

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:28 | Report Abuse

HY 3rd QTR pat at least 1 B can cover hedging lost

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:29 | Report Abuse

4TH qtr too 1B +-

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:30 | Report Abuse

HY share issue 300 M only

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:36 | Report Abuse

Uncle K so quiet lately must be collecting
He is a shrewd kind
Will come out a article and will say overlook the situation
Very thick skin one

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 13:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by MoneyMakers > Sep 1, 2022 1:20 PM | Report Abuse
If really caring/sharing - should share coming Q3 1.07Bil hedging loss + crack spread collapse

aiyoyo MM saya sudah banyak sharing itu unrealised derivatives fair value loss cuma untuk book-kepping MM tak bacakah?

Itu yang collapse cuma crack spread Mogas92. itu jetfuel dan diesel masih banyak tinggi.

Itu China boss ada baca MM punya comment: war over, no more war premium, crude oil and refining margin rutuh harga maka dia pun takut dan terus buat future refining margin (Mogas 92 crack spread) 3 juta barrel setiap bulan untuk 15 bulan pada USD 20. Manatahu itu MM blow water saja refining margin sudah naik ke USD30 dan account boss sudah realised rugi USD 3x3x10= USD 90 juta dan unrealised rugi USD 3x12x10 = USD 360 juta.

Maka kalau unrealised loss USD 360 juta masuk P&L itu profit sudah jadi loss kurang cantik. Boss pun pandai masuk itu unrealised loss ke Balance sheet maka NTA pun jadi jatuk dari 662 sen to 524sen.

Itu semua salah MM

kalau Refining margin turun jadi USD20 seperti apa cakap oleh MM maka Q3 itu unrealised refining margin loss pun jadi kosang dan dalam Balance sheet tak ada lagi unrealised loss NTA akan naik balik.

Kalau jatuh lebih USD20 itu unrealised loss akan jadi realised or unrealised gain.

Note: SINGAPORE MOGAS 92 UNLEADED (PLATTS) BRENT CRACK SPREAD FUTURES (CONTINUOUS: CURRENT CONTRACT IN FRONT)NYMEX
−0.637
D
USD
−10.255
(−106.62%)

SINGAPORE JET KEROSENE (PLATTS) DUBAI (PLATTS) CRACK SPREAD FUTURES (CONTINUOUS: NEXT CONTRACT IN FRONT)NYMEX
39.979
D
USD
−0.110
(−0.27%)

LOW SULPHUR GASOIL CRACK SPREAD (1000MT) FINANCIAL FUTURES (CONTINUOUS: CURRENT CONTRACT IN FRONT)NYMEX
49.747
D
USD
+4.505
(+9.96%)

Posted by MoneyMakers > 2022-09-01 13:43 | Report Abuse

Sslee If HY hedge swaps expire/renewable monthly, will ur so-called ‘unrealised derivatives fair value loss’ become realised 1.07Bil hedging loss in Q3??

Posted by BoomBerg > 2022-09-01 13:47 | Report Abuse

BoomBerg HY FYE at least 1 B even so much hedging lost
EPS at least RM3-5 for FYE 2022

MoneyMakers If really caring/sharing - should share coming Q3 1.07Bil hedging loss + crack spread collapse
01/09/2022 1:20 PM
01/09/2022 1:27 PM
X
BoomBerg HY 3rd QTR pat at least 1 B can cover hedging lost
01/09/2022 1:28 PM
X
BoomBerg 4TH qtr too 1B +-

Posted by cactus81 > 2022-09-01 13:56 | Report Abuse

Note: SINGAPORE MOGAS 92 UNLEADED (PLATTS) BRENT CRACK SPREAD FUTURES (CONTINUOUS: CURRENT CONTRACT IN FRONT)NYMEX
−0.637

Should be very good for HY to realize hedging gain?

Posted by heng420 > 2022-09-01 13:58 | Report Abuse

so much irony in one comment

MoneyMakers
Boomberg u stuck high what price until crazy panic spam nonsense

Nothing posted here can affect share price leh
50 minutes ago

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 14:17 | Report Abuse

Posted by MoneyMakers > Sep 1, 2022 1:43 PM | Report Abuse
Sslee If HY hedge swaps expire/renewable monthly, will ur so-called ‘unrealised derivatives fair value loss’ become realised 1.07Bil hedging loss in Q3??

Good and glad for MM, now you’re talking: My understanding as below:
All hedging derivative financial instruments are with maturity date (can be 1 month to many months or years). So on maturity day the losses will be realized and recorded in: The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after (crediting)/charging:
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments RM __________..

But loss in derivatives is actually offset by higher gross profit due to physical gain in higher selling price or lower purchased cost.

Those un-matured hedge/derivatives will be marked to market and reported as unrealized gain/(loss)
The unrealized gain/loss on derivative can be recorded in P&L as:
Other comprehensive (expense)/income:
Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss when on maturity date.
Cash flow hedge – net fair value (loss)/gain on derivatives used for hedging (net of tax)
Cost of hedging reserve (net of tax)

The unrealized loss is non cash item hence in balance sheet will be recorded as:
Derivative financial liabilities
Derivative financial assets
Thus the NTA will change from quarter to quarter.

Example: In Q2 HRC physical average finished products sold is USD 151 per barrel and realized derivatives loss for Q2 is RM 438,758,000 YTD RM 870,964,000.
Unrealized loss at maturity date become realized but will be offset by physical gain on products selling price or/and lower cost of purchased
The product prices during 2Q 2022 and YTD 2022 improved from an average price of USD75 per barrel and USD71 per barrel for the corresponding periods in 2021 to USD151 per barrel and USD133 per barrel
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments RM 438,758,000 YTD RM 870,964,000

Posted by NoviceJ > 2022-09-01 14:18 | Report Abuse

Cutting thru the noise
Top up a little more !!!!!!!!!!!
when people are still worried with such profit

Posted by Mikecyc > 2022-09-01 14:41 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by MoneyMakers > 2022-09-01 14:42 | Report Abuse

Sslee Higher gross profit/physical gain alrdy realised in Q2

HY 1.07Bil hedging loss should’ve correspond with higher gross profit in Q2

But due to timing mismatch (swap expiry), will only realise hedging loss 1.07Bil in Q3 (without corresponding higher gross profit/physical gain)

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-09-01 14:46 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan ada hedge pada harga 30++ sebab mm cakap war is over soon!
Sekarang leg spreads sudah jadi kosong 0 !
Margin hedge in sudah jadi gila !
Untung masuk pocket tiap tiap hari.
Hengyuan buat hedge macam petronm kerana mahu protect profit.
Lu Tau boh

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-09-01 14:50 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan buat contract hedge sampai 2024
Profit gila gila gila selama 2 tahun
Lu Tau boh

Posted by lee77 > 2022-09-01 14:52 | Report Abuse

Friends,,, price is keep dropping non stop....

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 14:54 | Report Abuse

It's Reddddd, how la...

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-01 15:04 | Report Abuse

Sell On News

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 15:05 | Report Abuse

Sslee Higher gross profit/physical gain alrdy realised in Q2

HY 1.07Bil hedging loss should’ve correspond with higher gross profit in Q2

But due to timing mismatch (swap expiry), will only realise hedging loss 1.07Bil in Q3 (without corresponding higher gross profit/physical gain)

Ans: All hedging derivative financial instruments are with maturity date (can be 1 month to many months or years).

For Q3 every month end (July, Aug and Sept) there will be some hedging derivative financial instruments mature and any loss/gain will be reported in: The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after (crediting)/charging:
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments RM __________.
But loss in derivatives should be offset by higher gross profit due to physical gain in higher selling price or lower purchased cost and vice versa

Those un-matured hedge/derivatives will be marked to market and reported as unrealized gain/(loss)

The unrealized gain/loss on derivative can be recorded in P&L as:
Other comprehensive (expense)/income:
Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss when on maturity date.

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-09-01 15:07 | Report Abuse

This super spread never appear in your lifetime before.Hengyuan management recognize this golden opportunity to hedge at super spread.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-01 15:09 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Joker68 > 2022-09-01 15:10 | Report Abuse

So much of info and trash talk but stock ain't moving. Wake up ppl. Nothing is going to move with u.s and china market so bad now

Posted by ngjack1991 > 2022-09-01 15:12 | Report Abuse

All the discussion on hedging loss or gain is nonsense at the moment. Only insider know how the management hedge and if there are losses or gain then it will reported in coming QR. Confident then buy, otherwise sell as simple as that

Posted by amateurJR > 2022-09-01 15:14 | Report Abuse

haha no RM18?

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-09-01 15:14 | Report Abuse

Today overall market is damn bearish
Highest gainer only 0.04!

Posted by Sharewire > 2022-09-01 15:23 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan always above petronm
But due to technical glitch it's below petronm for 2 month.Mm need to take a look at chart.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-01 15:26 | Report Abuse

////u lose money on your bet if raw crude drops after your bet and u lose money if refined oil shoots up after your bet.////

yes thats how it works.
usually done at NYMEX due to financial stability and ability to take your huge bets.

///


from NYMEX website
Futures margin is the amount of money that you must deposit and keep on hand with your broker when you open a futures position. It is not a down payment and you do not own the underlying commodity.

Futures margin generally represents a smaller percentage of the notional value of the contract, typically 3-12% per futures contract as opposed to up to 50% of the face value of securities purchased on margin.

The term margin is used across multiple financial markets. However, there is difference between securities margins and futures margins. Understanding these differences is essential, prior to trading futures contracts.

////

Under NYMEX Regulations a HUGE proportion of your Hedges are PORN naked
with vagina bracketed open just like open heart surgery for huge interest rate increases.

currently Global Inflation is due to supply side disruption which nothing can be done.

Due to political pressures, Powell is expected to FCUK just like Volcker and some say even worse.

Paper Tabled at Jackson Hole Economic Symposium to begin QT which sucks liquidity from Global Financial System.
Together with US interest rate increase will simulate a worst than Volcker FCUK

Volcker FCUKS generally results in USD interest rate at or exceeding 20% per annum

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 15:38 | Report Abuse

qqq3,
Commodity swap contract is cash settlement.
Example buy crude oil swap contract mature next month USD 100.
Sell finished products swap contract mature next month USD 120.

One month later:
Physical crude oil drop to USD 80 your swap contract loss USD 20 but you now buy physical crude oil at USD80 so your net cost is still USD100

Physical finished products increase to USD 140 your swap contract loss USD 20 but you now sell finished products physical at USD 140 so your net sell is still USD120.

In short you are ensured of USD 20 margin no matter what.

Posted by harold8990 > 2022-09-01 15:44 | Report Abuse

lol many panicking

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-01 15:45 | Report Abuse

Betting and hedging is totally different.

You bet on price movement without any physical good to buy or sell in future.

Hendging is for you to protect your margin because you have physical good to buy and sell in future.

Posted by lee77 > 2022-09-01 15:48 | Report Abuse

EPS more than 2; price can not move up..
What happen to bursa

Posted by mf > 2022-09-01 15:50 | Report Abuse

US 30
31,381.10 -129.3 -0.41%
US 500
3,927.40 -27.6

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-01 15:50 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-01 15:52 | Report Abuse

NYMEX regulations allow you to pay a fee and rollover your RM1 Billion losses to next month in a Satanic Forsaken Hope that "I will think about it tomorrow, Scarlett O Hara in Gone With The Wind"

as usual, "tomorrow is the same as today"

.... like Hin Leong ...
you might run out of money to pay the rollover fee,
and NYMEX issues a Letter of Demand to you..
coz why?
remember I already told you under NYMEX regulations your Vagina is bracketed open to expose to interest rate increases.
under certain conditions your swap rates ie interest rate charges may exceed your unrealized losses.

so you end up owing money to NYMEX for losses, rollover fees and swap rates totalling in USD Billions just like Hin Leong case.

Posted by profit profits > 2022-09-01 15:52 | Report Abuse

no buyers at all, all sellers and dump like ship is sinking despite 667 millions ?

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 15:54 | Report Abuse

What in the world, EPS > 2, but bloodbath!!

Posted by stockwin > 2022-09-01 15:54 | Report Abuse

The market need to understand HY is doing Hedging and not engage in speculative derivative trading then there is hope for HY.
HY should come out to address their hedging policy in greater details.
Perhaps they are eyeing to take it private??

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 15:58 | Report Abuse

No one bother to mark your word leh. All concern want cutwin not to cutloss leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by BoomBerg > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse

Refinery will be the best bet of the year
Mark my word
Tell me which industry can do well beside refinery?
Even O&G the best bet are facing uncertainty

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 16:00 | Report Abuse

Who care so much the hedging or not lah. All care the share price can up or not only lah. Have to understand this leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

Posted by stockwin > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

The market need to understand HY is doing Hedging and not engage in speculative derivative trading then there is hope for HY.
HY should come out to address their hedging policy in greater details.
Perhaps they are eyeing to take it private??

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 16:01 | Report Abuse

Can take pvt or not if follow Msia law. Haiyoh. Correct?


Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 36 seconds ago | Report Abuse

The present market cap = 1.584 billion.
1 quarter made 667 million.
2.37 quarters will make back the capital.
Take it private loh, China man investor.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-01 16:02 | Report Abuse

At least you talk some sense. Good observation. Need to consider this also. Correct?

Posted by MoneyMakers > 1 second ago | Report Abuse

Fyi HY usually 50sen BELOW petron

Need drop alot more

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-01 16:03 | Report Abuse

The present market cap = 1.584 billion.
1 quarter made 667 million.
2.37 quarters will make back the capital.
Take it private loh, China man investor.
Lose it all is my fate.

Posted by klee > 2022-09-01 16:04 | Report Abuse

Hrc holders need pray hard ady.Haiyoh.Correct?

Posted by $$ BUYSELL $$ > 2022-09-01 16:06 | Report Abuse

already told you early.

Posted by James_Bond > 2022-09-01 16:07 | Report Abuse

HengYuan Uptrend broken, better sell before it is too late!

Posted by lee77 > 2022-09-01 16:08 | Report Abuse

Below RM 5.....

Posted by profit profits > 2022-09-01 16:09 | Report Abuse

it is bshit to forecase hy q3 eps -2.0, worst case it is like Q1 or Q421. economy activities are increasing .

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-01 16:10 | Report Abuse

someone already commented if like that can make money
everyone will own a Virtual Refinery
just 'long" crude
and short "products"
instead of buying shares in a Virtual Company like HRC

Posted by cedcan > 2022-09-01 16:10 | Report Abuse

CUT LOSS! Screw this EPS > 2!!