Posted by harold8990 > 2022-09-09 18:48 | Report Abuse

Waiting at rm3.8-rm4 to recollect tickets..

Posted by information > 2022-09-09 18:51 | Report Abuse

@Sharewire, thanks

Posted by BobAxelrod > 2022-09-09 19:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-09 19:11 | Report Abuse

Dear shareware, the word monster profit is music to my ears. Good luck to us all!

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-09 19:16 | Report Abuse

Allow me to repeat again:

I do not have information on HRC refining margin hedge position nor the duration of hedged nor whether HRC overhedged or underhedged. But be objective and look into Q2 result: figures and form your own facts based on your own understanding or imagination.

Posted by eagerinvestor > 2022-09-09 19:27 | Report Abuse

@probability & @sslee thanks for all the valuable informations that both of you provided. Really make our life so much easier.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-09 19:29 | Report Abuse

My two layman questions remain.

The changes in the cost of hedging is initially recognised in other comprehensive income and will be removed from equity and recognised in profit or loss in the same period that the hedged cash flows affect profit or loss.

So tell me if you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023

So when Q2 end 30/06/2022 the spot month and future month refining margin is now at USD 30 - 25 per barrel.

How you going to capture this unrealised loss in your Q2 account?

Is this unrealised loss a great concerned?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-09 19:39 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > 57 seconds ago | Report Abuse
How you going to capture this unrealised loss in your Q2 account?
Is this unrealised loss a great concerned?
--------------
To me this unrealised loss is none of my concerned.
When mature, the loss is deducted from the gross profit.
The gross profit earns less profit only after deducting the realised refined losses.
The big profit is already captured in the spot price as long as the current crack spread is higher than the hedged crack spread.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 19:47 | Report Abuse

@sslee, i did not really understand your query above.

I am perfectly inline with Zhuge's statement above.

Does the below simplified statement not answer your query?

........


The Cash Flow Hedge (CFH) in OCI shows the hedging gain / loss for the hedged position which are closed, but the corresponding physical market transaction (change in ownership of the goods) is yet to take place to deliver the available market gross profit which is then offset by this hedging gain / loss on CFH to give the P&L exactly as it has been hedged initially.

The Cost of Hedging Reserve (COHR) on the other hand shows the hedging gain / loss for all the balance hedged position (yet to be closed) from the notional amount (refining margin swap contract RMSC), where the corresponding physical market transaction will take place within the maturity period (next 24 months) assuming the hedging positions are closed as per current spot rate.

As such, COHR is a highly hypothetical figure that changes significantly as per the market spot price of the commodity (mark-to-market) when the financial reporting period is closed.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 19:50 | Report Abuse

the unrealized losses shown on COHR are purely future hedging losses IF the mark to market spot price of the refined products on June 30th remains.

Its derive to show the probable future at that point in time. This his nothing to do with P&L and thats why the placed in OCI

Posted by upshare > 2022-09-09 19:56 | Report Abuse

@probability
Assume that the crack spread keep increasing then
HY profit is gain but loss in hedging cost.

But is the crack.spread is reduced then
HY profit is become.less but gain from hedging cost..

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 19:59 | Report Abuse

@upshare, i totally understand these. I was trying to answer sslee but i was not sure what was his question..

Posted by AlsvinChangan > 2022-09-09 20:00 | Report Abuse

HY Q2 is unusual in treatment of hedging losses
hedging losses are adjusted directly in Shareholders Reserves


IN ACCOUNTING,
Under the prudence concept, do not overestimate the amount of revenues recognized or underestimate the amount of expenses

WHEN there is a loss what so ever, it should be recognized immediately


HY releasse Q2 somewhere in Aug 2022
Did HY dislclose any info by way of notes to accounts what the status and details of hedging
from 01/07/2022 up to date of Q2 release?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 20:05 | Report Abuse

By sslee's way of query, i was thinking he was stressing the point that COHR is not of any concern till the time the actual physical market transaction takes place along with the hedge crack closure in futures..

@sslee was that the message? or is it a sincere query?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-09 20:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-09 20:10 | Report Abuse

Probability,
The two questions is for those cannot understand your too technical explanation on:
The Cash Flow Hedge and Cost of Hedging Reserve to think for themselve what they going to do when facing with:

If you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023

So when Q2 end 30/06/2022 the spot month and future month refining margin is now at USD 30 - 25 per barrel.

How you going to capture this unrealised loss in your Q2 account?

Is this unrealised loss a great concerned?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 20:11 | Report Abuse

ok, exactly as i thought earlier..ok great! :)

Posted by tehka > 2022-09-09 20:42 | Report Abuse

Dear zhuge if you are right we will see ATH again

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 20:45 | Report Abuse

Why post removed why qqq333. Why so fast. Ular belum baca apa dia cakap sudah post removed why leh. Why HY cannot have opposition kah. All must be promoters one kah. Luckily Ular now is part time promoter leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


qqq3333

Post removed.Why?

19 minutes ago

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 20:46 | Report Abuse

@ular..ask him to repost..we are here to listen all naysayers...loud and clear

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-09 20:47 | Report Abuse

Posted by tehka > 50 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Dear zhuge if you are right we will see ATH again
----------
I hope so.
If ATH, my sifu will not be attacked by naysayers again.
I cannot tell you what is our expected target price.

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2022-09-09 20:48 | Report Abuse

Posted by probability > 19 seconds ago | Report Abuse
@ular..ask him to repost..we are here to listen all naysayers...loud and clear
-------------
No point, he talks nonsense here.

Posted by Sslee > 2022-09-09 20:55 | Report Abuse

qqq3,
Knowing your hatred for OTB, I am not going to argue with you.
Wait for q3 result out in end Nov and then we can debate who is right, who is wrong.

If you are wrong then hope you keep your promise of never come to disturb HRC forum again.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:03 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:07 | Report Abuse

Even Ular ask him to repost pun kena post removed why before Ular manage to read lah. Understandable lah. Ada Cafe Boss punya workers can do such thing leh. Like this very unfair to all those want more open views from penkritik leh. Penkritik acts like check and balance leh. Like opposition in the parlimen ini macam leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


probability

@ular..ask him to repost..we are here to listen all naysayers...loud and clear

16 minutes ago

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-09 21:25 | Report Abuse

Check slightly below top left in this wet market website, you will see the current share price. One ought to be cautious when you start seeing bunch of commenters who have caused so much damage start complimenting each others and continue disregard the potential downside. Let's wait patiently and squeeze harder for any windows opportunity in this tiny volume trading. The only way to make some decent profits from the little fake men.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 21:25 | Report Abuse

yes Ular..i agree with you, but sometime this qqq3 simply pluck things from thin air and annoy people...thats why..

ask him to refute more decently... sure people no attack him i think..

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 21:29 | Report Abuse

Ular, you realize or not one thing about all these naysayers?

they never get in to the information presented to discuss but always talk about the promoters themself and their motives

is it naturally the naysayer IQ is mostly very low? haiyo, correct?

Posted by sharemarket21 > Sep 9, 2022 9:25 PM | Report Abuse

Check slightly below top left in this wet market website, you will see the current share price. One ought to be cautious when you start seeing bunch of commenters who have caused so much damage start complimenting each others and continue disregard the potential downside. Let's wait patiently and squeeze harder for any windows opportunity in this tiny volume trading. The only way to make some decent profits from the little fake men.

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-09 21:34 | Report Abuse

Nah, many of you pumped all the nonsenses and unfounded factual from the peak and disregarding the stock market fundamental flow and rules, causing so much damages, yet you trying to be act tough here ? It's 4.60 and not 7 above. We are here to expose and a few newbies ought to find out. You had your moment but roasted and roasting.

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 21:38 | Report Abuse

also, you realized or not these low IQ naysayers think just by using some professional english words they think readers may value their toilet paper worth opinions...really taking a lot of forum space right! haiyo, correct?

Posted by sharemarket21 > Sep 9, 2022 9:34 PM | Report Abuse

Nah, many of you pumped all the nonsenses and unfounded factual from the peak and disregarding the stock market fundamental flow and rules, causing so much damages, yet you trying to be act tough here ? It's 4.60 and not 7 above. We are here to expose and a few newbies ought to find out. You had your moment but roasted and roasting.

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-09 21:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 21:41 | Report Abuse

u see this one also like to use very advance sophisticated language with ZERO content at the end, haiyo, correct?

Posted by i3lurker > Sep 9, 2022 9:39 PM | Report Abuse

no calculations required
unless you are Dragon who ngam ngam passed maths at UPSR level
[Govt terminated this exam so that future Dragons no need embarassment]

Brent at zero,
HRC is liquidated,
banklap [Dragon hear this is very excited]

no need zero for long period of time
if Brent reaches zero for 1 microsecond, and then goes back up to 90.00
all those swaps are terminated and HRC will owe billions to sex firm
thats how the swap market works

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-09 21:42 | Report Abuse

Dude you caused so much damages in gloves forum and should stop talking for a while when the share price failed miserably with all your nonsenses. Again it's 4.60 and not 7. I am speaking judging the current share price.

Posted by Investing_Bursa > 2022-09-09 21:43 | Report Abuse

Ya I don’t even bothered reading what sharemarket21 writes. Waste of time with his ranting. Quite clearly he has a brain of an underage kid .

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-09 21:46 | Report Abuse

Am taunting dudes. Need not to be taught I supposed. Bunch of whinners in the room. You brought yourselves into this state and not us. Keep crying like baby wont help the share price back to where it belongs.

Posted by upshare > 2022-09-09 21:49 | Report Abuse

How long HY can hold the hedging..

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:52 | Report Abuse

Wei Ular Spm ada ngam ngam passed leh. Last time primary school hisab ular also passed leh. Baru ada boleh continue to take spm hisab leh. You looked down ular kah. Takda passed primary school hisab kah. Ular testing hisab primary school question. 1 + 2 = 3 correct?


i3lurker

no calculations required
unless you are Dragon who ngam ngam passed maths at UPSR level
[Govt terminated this exam so that future Dragons no need embarassment]

Brent at zero,
HRC is liquidated,
banklap [Dragon hear this is very excited]

no need zero for long period of time
if Brent reaches zero for 1 microsecond, and then goes back up to 90.00
all those swaps are terminated and HRC will owe billions to sex firm
thats how the swap market works

9 minutes ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:53 | Report Abuse

According hearsay from the forum can tahan until end of the year lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

upshare

How long HY can hold the hedging..

2 minutes ago

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-09 21:54 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by probability > 2022-09-09 21:54 | Report Abuse

@upshare, as per the maturity date of respective barrels hedged

if you see the RMSC, they are able to hedge even up to 2 years (maturity) in advance..subject to availability of counterparty to provide the hedging contract.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:54 | Report Abuse

Sometime ular see penkritik pun sedih leh. Be considerate abit leh. Ppl already suffering paperloss leh. You dont add salt into their wounds leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


sharemarket21

Am taunting dudes. Need not to be taught I supposed. Bunch of whinners in the room. You brought yourselves into this state and not us. Keep crying like baby wont help the share price back to where it belongs.

7 minutes ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:56 | Report Abuse

You sound like professional in swap market hedging leh. But cannot suka suka cakap HY will banklap like Taikor leh. You like this cakap also very unfair leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

i3lurker

most people have zero knowledge of swap markets, including some monsters too.
thats why monsters can lie, cheat and Macau Scam with impunity and claim zero knowledge.

swap markets use dynamic capital calls.
once Brent reaches zero, margin call is dynamic and executed immediately.
all securities/swaps/hedges are closed with owings of Billions [exceeding HRC shareholders funds] to be paid to sex firm immediately.

I see CharlesT evolving from respect to utter contempt for monsters.

I also only have utter contempt for monsters too.

frankly money is very easy to make.
money pours into my bank accounts everyday => from swaps.

:)

I would not suggest that you take any position in any company that is already having swap losses.
Problem belong you.

37 seconds ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 21:58 | Report Abuse

Ular doubted you never read leh. If you takda read how you can reply exactly to the point leh. Haiyoh. Correct?


Investing_Bursa

Ya I don’t even bothered reading what sharemarket21 writes. Waste of time with his ranting. Quite clearly he has a brain of an underage kid .

12 minutes ago

Posted by sharemarket21 > 2022-09-09 21:59 | Report Abuse

Public wet market forum my friend. Should have understand and preach silent is golden if that's the case. Everyone have their chance to show their market investment skill and intelligent here. The share price will determine if ones have investment low IQ or bugs brain. Fair and equal..

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 22:01 | Report Abuse

You meant those made millions from gloves kah. Haiyoh. Correct?

sharemarket21

Dude you caused so much damages in gloves forum and should stop talking for a while when the share price failed miserably with all your nonsenses. Again it's 4.60 and not 7. I am speaking judging the current share price.

17 minutes ago

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-09 22:02 | Report Abuse

HRC is just Gambling

make money no need to be proud
loss money no need to be embarassed, 10 Gamble 9 lose

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 22:02 | Report Abuse

This one can agree with you lah. You talk logically and want to share your views. You can carry on doing it in public forum. This is not a pvt forum. All are welcome to share their views. Haiyoh. Correct?


sharemarket21

Public wet market forum my friend. Should have understand and preach silent is golden if that's the case. Everyone have their chance to show their market investment skill and intelligent here. The share price will determine if ones have investment low IQ or bugs brain. Fair and equal..

1 minute ago

Posted by i3lurker > 2022-09-09 22:05 | Report Abuse

either you are a Gambler, Speculator or Investor

decide what you want to be when you grow up.

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 22:06 | Report Abuse

You sound like you are investor leh. Ppl want to gamble pun not you pasal mah. Why must instill your preference into others lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


i3lurker

either you are a Gambler, Speculator or Investor

decide what you want to be when you grow up.

33 seconds ago

Posted by UlarSawa > 2022-09-09 22:08 | Report Abuse

You sound like you never judi one leh. Can swear in front of everyone at here kah. If you dare lah. Talk is easy cakap you are investor. Haiyoh. Correct?


i3lurker

HRC is just Gambling

make money no need to be proud
loss money no need to be embarassed, 10 Gamble 9 lose

4 minutes ago