Posted by OTB > 2020-05-10 13:46 | Report Abuse

Posted by DK66 > May 10, 2020 1:41 PM | Report Abuse

Aseng, I gave my challenge, and the gang are not taking up the challenge. What does that mean ?
--------------
They have no ball to take up the challenge.
They are just too lazy to do their homework to work out the figures.
They give sweeping statement will attract a lot of supporters to back them up.
Why bother to do the homework ?
All homework are detail and it is hard work.
They always take the easy way out. It is their way.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 13:46 | Report Abuse

elbrutus bro, it is not you that I am protecting. I just realised that there are those who don't like to read articles. These are the vulnerable ones.

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 13:46 | Report Abuse

DK66 bro ...YES they can ...NEXT LIFE perhaps ...hihihi

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 13:50 | Report Abuse

OTB, I merely asked them to prove themselves. Nothing else. In order to arrive at 26 cents on 12% IRR, they must have already done the spreadsheet. No more works needed just present it.

Are you saying that they spoke out not nothing ? no calculation ?

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OTB Posted by DK66 > May 10, 2020 1:41 PM | Report Abuse

Aseng, I gave my challenge, and the gang are not taking up the challenge. What does that mean ?
--------------
They have no ball to take up the challenge.
They are just too lazy to do their homework to work out the figures.
They give sweeping statement will attract a lot of supporters to back them up.
Why bother to do the homework ?
All homework are detail and it is hard work.
They always take the easy way out. It is their way.
10/05/2020 1:46 PM

Posted by karimboss > 2020-05-10 13:50 | Report Abuse

I hope OTB dont simply give TP amount here. You can do analysis here but dont give TP to people. Is like giving fake hope to people. Hope you understand.

Posted by OTB > 2020-05-10 13:53 | Report Abuse

Yes.
They have no ball to take up the challenge because they are just too lazy to do their homework to work out the figures.
Nothing had been done except sweeping statement.
They are tin kosong as Philip said.

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-05-10 13:55 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 13:55 | Report Abuse

karimboss ...u r no better ..ok

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 13:58 | Report Abuse

I gave him a simple challenge to remove his obstacles and he can't do it.

Posted by OTB > 2020-05-10 14:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-10 14:01 | Report Abuse

Haha i3lurker,
You Gdex now 26.5 cents. What is your dump TP?

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-05-10 14:14 | Report Abuse

sslee

GDex a lot is still unknown
so I have no idea

Japanese move very very slowly.
There is no guarantee anything will happen.
Only Jap Director appointed so far.

Example Kintetsu took over Malaysian operations was fast but name change etc to new corporate identity took more than 2 years

thats a difficult share to value because people dun wake up in the morning and decide to buy Gdex. They just queue 1 hour at poslaju.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-10 14:16 | Report Abuse

To all the lovely mothers, Happy Mother's Day.

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 14:18 | Report Abuse

pls go to your respective forums to do ur postings ...this is Ms JAKS territory ...buzz off pls ...in OTB words ...thank you...ps..i m being polite !

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-10 14:25 | Report Abuse

i3lurker > May 10, 2020 1:55 PM | Report Abuse

qqq3

Your SCIB and Kpower is also Pump and Dump
==========

whoever pump scib/ kpower. I don't know don't care............I just want to make money.

I like scib/ kpower zero earnings, zero revenue means no need use so much brain power.

oTB type calculate here, calculate there, use so much brain power...got use meh?? what if calculate here calculate there all wrong, then how?

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 14:25 | Report Abuse

This is also in the circular

Slippage rate = inflation

-------------------------
Components of fixed price for operation and maintenance according to major repair costs and other costs The base year is ... (VND / kWh);

i: Slippage rate of components of the fixed price for operation and maintenance by other expenses is 2.5% / year (or as prescribed in the Circular providing methods of determining generation price, order of checking conformity electricity trading);

l: Ordinal number of payment year starting from the base year ( for base year l = 1) .

Posted by VIN3133 > 2020-05-10 14:28 | Report Abuse

elbrutus, we, the ignorant uncles & unties , who know nothing about the PPAs & IPPs ( as claimed ) support your call.
The self-proclaimed experts in PPAs & IPPs , don't just beat around the bush & give excuses & talk 3 talk 4 here .
As so-called experts , just simulate DK66 & Icon8888 presented formats & insert your substantiated data . It is that simple .
That will be simple enough for us to compare & make decision as to who is right & who is wrong !
If you are sincere & really care about the ignorant uncles/unties/ newbies here ,please do it !
We are patiently & anxiously waiting !

-----------------------------------------------------------------
elbrutus>DK66 bro ...let me summarise this episode ...UNTIL THESE GUYS PROVED OTHERWISE THERE IS NO NECESSITY WHATSOEVER FOR YOUR GOODSELF TO REMOVE YOUR HARDWORK ie articles from Ms JAKS FORUM ...it shud be d other way round !!!
10/05/2020 1:38 PM

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-05-10 14:38 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 14:42 | Report Abuse

VIN3133 bro...ditto that...but they talk batu pandai saja...act like know alot about POWER PLANTS but in actual fact same like u n me ...tuiiiiii

Posted by VIN3133 > 2020-05-10 14:56 | Report Abuse

elbrutus bro , yup , we have the same feeling !
Otherwise , so susah to come up with their substantiated counter calculations meh !
haha

Happy Mother's Day to all unties/mothers !!
--------------------------------------------
elbrutus>VIN3133 bro...ditto that...but they talk batu pandai saja...act like know alot about POWER PLANTS but in actual fact same like u n me ...tuiiiiii
10/05/2020 2:42 PM

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2020-05-10 14:59 | Report Abuse

i3lurker

Reconcile Vinh Tan 1 actual results wit ur claims

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 15:17 | Report Abuse

To a certain extent, I believe both i3lurker and dk66 aare both wrong and right in their analysis.

Let me put it in terms of rationality. First you need to understand what is IRR.

https://www.calculatestuff.com/financial/irr-calculator

The fact of the matter is, if you were to create a spreadsheet to " calculate" internal rate of return you would not get it. There is no final answer simply because there is no single correct answer.

In fact, since IRR is iterative, it cannot be calculated exactly ( unlike PE, ROIC, etc) but must be derivated by adding a discount rate that so that NPV is equal to zero.

By the way, if expected future cashflows are always positive, then there is no IRR – because you can’t make the NPV nil – unless the IRR is infinite. Put it another way: any project with only positive future free cashflows has an infinite IRR. Great. But confusing.

Maybe Howard marks can explain further.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.oaktreecapital.com/docs/default-source/memos/2006-07-12-you-cant-eat-irr.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjH39zh_qfpAhXYb30KHW-zDSEQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw28sZycjz_tM5C5LtqSySva

Anyway, this is a dangerous and stupid tool to use to estimate future profitable, especially if there is no PROFIT GUARANTEE from JAKS management.

So think about it rationally. Basically what DK66 is doing is assuming figures from multiple places: IRR given by one party, cashflow generated by another party, and making the estimates work to fit his theory. I3lurker is also doing the same thing.

Therefore without profit guarantee from JAKS, or 1st year cashflow results, both of them are really just speculating on numbers to fit whatever story they want. It's just playing with numbers.

A very simple example.

Imagine if sslee is starting a new Palm oil plantation. Since he doesn't know what the results in the future will be, he has to make estimates. He can either use results and cashflows generated per hectare from United plantations, or use results from kretam.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes.
They have no ball to take up the challenge because they are just too lazy to do their homework to work out the figures.
Nothing had been done except sweeping statement.
They are tin kosong as Philip said.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 15:38 | Report Abuse

But the arrogance and ego just to assume that writing beautiful articles equals results is silly.

This is like Jon choivo charging rm5k for his articles, i3lurker saying any 1000 stocks he picks is better than Star, Ricky Yeo writing his articles and not forgetting icon8888 with his infamous buy articles.

If I may be so bold, your reputation is not based on how popular or how many views your article has. But how wrong or right your stock pick is over time.

I remember that DK66 has gravitated to minimum tp of rm2.50 in the very near future ( after powerplant full run and capacity energy generation), and was confident of rm4, rm8, RM10 share price based on huge incoming earnings.

As DK66 still hasn't been proven right/ or wrong yet, I hope you hold on to your attitude in the future ( Jon choivos articles on rcecap was equally beautiful, and filled with charts and calculations as well).

More importantly though,

1. What is your holding cost.( To understand your investment criteria. Fyi qqq3 bought at 45 cents before. Where were you then?)
2. How many shares do you hold of Jaks in your portfolio( your conviction. You said something about margin before, did you buy more at these prices? Are you holding? Are you waiting for a push up in prices to buy? Are you fully leveraged?)
3. What other stocks are you holding and the performance (what is your reputation)
4. What have your performance been in the last 1-5 years? ( How right have you been on your other picks)

Please understand, I am not here to belittle you. I am not fishing for numbers, but am trying to understand your portfolio position. It can be in terms of percentages.

But if JAKS is your single and only stock, and if you have only been investing for the last 4 years, and your buys into puncak niaga, Petra energy and mieco shows a lot of research done, but also without much results, then I must apologize and ask,

What reputation?

>>>>>>>>

My reputation in Jaks forum is not built in one day. It takes more than just words of mouth to discredit me. You want to void this article, you need to do a lot better. The article is simple and easily understood, it doesn't take a scientist to understand the logic.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:41 | Report Abuse

Philip, can you then estimate the profit of JHDP given 12% IRR ? I just want to know how far off is his from icon8888's.

Thank you

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:42 | Report Abuse

I prefer practical than theoretical.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:44 | Report Abuse

Relative comparison is a far better evaluation method than IRR for JHDP given the similarity between Vinh Tan 1 and JHDP.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 15:46 | Report Abuse

But will his results be exactly like United plantations? Obviously not. So there is no point to argue. Let's just wait and see and invest if you want and stay away if you don't.

No point to argue when no results are out.

Unlike a pump and dump article to compare star media versus GDEX, eh i3lurker? Sslee sold for 50% returns in a few weeks. Your GDEX leh?

>>>>>

Imagine if sslee is starting a new Palm oil plantation. Since he doesn't know what the results in the future will be, he has to make estimates. He can either use results and cashflows generated per hectare from United plantations, or use results from kretam.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-10 15:46 | Report Abuse

For BOT business model where you have only concession period to collect the annual return hence IRR is used to sum up your project free cash flow till concession year end with a discount rate so that the NPV is equal to your project cost. The discount rate is the IRR.

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 15:47 | Report Abuse

DK66 bro ...no point asking these queries cos writing can be tedious n v time comsuming...if they r not into Ms JAKS territory no pen will be lifted lah...so no point asking them ...just keep to ur own belief n time ..no long though...will tell !!!

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:48 | Report Abuse

In reality, you need to forecast your future cash flow including the initial outlays, then you can find the IRR (by trial and error) until NPV reaches 0. What we are doing is actually working backward, not the right way, but an attempt to forecast the cash flow pattern, if IRR is the only information we have.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:50 | Report Abuse

Trying to predict the future cash flow, by an outsider, for 25 years is quite an impossible task without making some wild assumptions.

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 15:50 | Report Abuse

seeds r being planted on Ms JAKS garden ...whether harvest is bountiful or kena locust attack ...we shall see ...hope it is d former

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:53 | Report Abuse

Yes, perhaps philip is the most reputable man by his own standard.
---------------
elbrutus DK66 bro ...no point asking these queries cos writing can be tedious n v time comsuming...if they r not into Ms JAKS territory no pen will be lifted lah...so no point asking them ...just keep to ur own belief n time ..no long though...will tell !!!
10/05/2020 3:47 PM

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:55 | Report Abuse

Philip, how do I appear arrogance to you ? By putting up a challenge ? Are you speaking for yourself too, challenging everyone with results ?

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:58 | Report Abuse

If sharing a good article is offensive and arrogance, I m speechless.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 15:59 | Report Abuse

Obviously, you do not believe in sharing. Not me, I stay in a small town with a lot of loving people.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 16:00 | Report Abuse

I am not interested in speculation.

You know as well as I do without first year cash flow generation, historical returns, quality of maintenance and operation, a clear form of payments guarantee and collection of receivables you can make NPV any value to fit.

So, using relative comparison, I can judge the production capacity of LSS project of 5MW run in putrajaya versus a 5MW LSS project run in kudat, sabah?. Both are same contract, same year, same rates, but different company managements. I invite you to give your best evaluation, then I will post up the real returns of both companies. Then you can compare real life investing versus accounting book land.

>>>>>>>>

Posted by DK66 > May 10, 2020 3:44 PM | Report Abuse

Relative comparison is a far better evaluation method than IRR for JHDP given the similarity between Vinh Tan 1 and JHDP.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 16:06 | Report Abuse

Philip, if you have a better evaluation method, I would appreciate if you can share it here. I m doing a task that so far no one is doing better in Jaks - trying to FORECAST the future earnings of JHDP.
Please take note of the word "FORECAST"

If you can do better, I will take down my article and everyone including myself shall follow your article.

You may make comments on the article and point out its weaknesses but to totally invalidate it with just a few words, sorry, I m not convinced.

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 16:08 | Report Abuse

Philip, I m not a superman, I spent all my time in the last 3 years on Jaks. Please do not task me with other jobs. It is like saying "if you can't do this, then you must be wrong"

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-10 16:10 | Report Abuse

I also can write pump article on Kpower/ SCIB if I so wish.........All the ingredients in my head already.......but, why should I? I sleep better.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 16:13 | Report Abuse

Only those without results look on it as arrogant to check credentials.

In the internet world where everyone hides behind a mask, isn't the right thing to do is to compare what you say with what your investment returns.

This is why everyone buys subscription from OTB, because of his past results.

In the same vein, you have admitted what everyone knows, that your calculations and articles are based on comparisons and estimates and trial/error because your returns just cannot be CALCULATED, but iterated.

This is already a red flag for me, especially when you do not have real cash flow data to work with.

FYI I am not challenging anybody with results. If you do not wish to show your portfolio results, then there is no reason to push, because you yourself bought triplec based on writings by jay back then.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Jaks%20resources/2019-04-03-story200864-Who_is_DK66.jsp

I too used to follow many sifu who wrote beautiful articles. Where is triplec now?

There are many Warren buffetts in the world. But only one we listen to, why? Because his "sharings" come with a legendary portfolio.

Seriously, I have no issues with you and your sharings.

But the fact is, if your sharings don't work out, all you can do is say I'm sorry or stop posting.

Which does no good to investors who bought and loss based on your sharings.

>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by DK66 > May 10, 2020 3:55 PM | Report Abuse

Philip, how do I appear arrogance to you ? By putting up a challenge ? Are you speaking for yourself too, challenging everyone with results ?

Posted by EatCoconutCanWin > 2020-05-10 16:14 | Report Abuse

go go jaks.

Posted by elbrutus > 2020-05-10 16:14 | Report Abuse

really our Ms JAKS forum really tainted by alot of talk kok kok speacialists....kesian nya !

Posted by Antifakeguru > 2020-05-10 16:17 | Report Abuse

So pity those believe otb like god.

Posted by Antifakeguru > 2020-05-10 16:18 | Report Abuse

He said he buy jaks for gamble. King of Speculation.

Posted by OTB > 2020-05-10 16:22 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-10 16:22 | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3,
Are you sure you can write pump article on kpower and Scib as good as Philip's pump article on STAR?

Sleep better? Then why last night past mid night still write your comments in this forum?

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 16:23 | Report Abuse

Trial and error is to on IRR discount rate to get NPV to zero, not estimates. Please be informed.

I don't share empty articles, I always put up my computations so that readers may do verification.

If my sharings don't work out, beside saying "sorry", what else do you suggest I should do ? Are you suggesting I shouldn't share at all.

Perhaps the IBs should stop writing too ?

I suppose you are against the concept of sharing.

-------------------
Philip ( buy what you understand) Only those without results look on it as arrogant to check credentials.

In the internet world where everyone hides behind a mask, isn't the right thing to do is to compare what you say with what your investment returns.

This is why everyone buys subscription from OTB, because of his past results.

In the same vein, you have admitted what everyone knows, that your calculations and articles are based on comparisons and estimates and trial/error because your returns just cannot be CALCULATED, but iterated.

This is already a red flag for me, especially when you do not have real cash flow data to work with.

FYI I am not challenging anybody with results. If you do not wish to show your portfolio results, then there is no reason to push, because you yourself bought triplec based on writings by jay back then.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Jaks%20resources/2019-04-03-story200...

I too used to follow many sifu who wrote beautiful articles. Where is triplec now?

There are many Warren buffetts in the world. But only one we listen to, why? Because his "sharings" come with a legendary portfolio.

Seriously, I have no issues with you and your sharings.

But the fact is, if your sharings don't work out, all you can do is say I'm sorry or stop posting.

Which does no good to investors who bought and loss based on your sharings.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-10 16:26 | Report Abuse

I repeat, you are not wrong or right because people say you are. You are wrong or right because your results say you are.

Why keep writing so many articles? Is it because a large part of your networth is in JAKS and it is to your best interest to keep writing articles using assumptions and estimations and FORECASTING without a PROFIT GUARANTEE from JAKS management?

Let's face facts: if you have invested in JAKS unprofitably for the last 3 years without dividends or share buybacks or increase in share price value, then your IRR must be bad. So if you need to write articles then go ahead.

But you do not need to be so argumentative. Just provide your points and move on.

Let people agree to disagree.

If you want to step on their necks, please provide portfolio results to show that you are right and they are wrong. Articles and charts alone are useless if they do not CORRECTLY FORECAST THE FUTURE.

This is an investing forum, not an engineering forum.

and since results is just around the corner, why don't you just wait for results to justify your investment thesis, rather than fighting with everyone around you?

FYI, I know exactly how you feel. You can read my comments on QL forum arguing with everyone on why I am still holding a pe50 stock. But today none of them are in QL forum anymore (except for sslee), probability, stockraider, icon8888, choivo, Ricky yeoh, kcchongnz.

The reason was simple. I was right and they were wrong. While their stocks cratered to 10 year lows in their low PE high dividend etc strategies, my pe50 stock kept going up in price and stayed steady during the crisis.

That is how you build a reputation. By being right.

Agree to disagree.


>>>>>>

Posted by DK66 > May 10, 2020 4:08 PM | Report Abuse

Philip, I m not a superman, I spent all my time in the last 3 years on Jaks. Please do not task me with other jobs. It is like saying "if you can't do this, then you must be wrong"

Posted by DK66 > 2020-05-10 16:26 | Report Abuse

I do not wish to offend anyone and make enemies here. But I always been personally attacked. Why? I thought I m nice enough not to create troubles, but troubles always come to me. Just because I shared my writings ??